This is topic What can you wipe film with that wont scratch it? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-16-2003, 12:18 AM:
 
I was making up a print tonight, and on my own prints I like to use filmguard to remove the tape residue. The problem is The CPI wipes or delicate task wipers arent good for much more than wiping your ass. They do scratch film. I need something that is soft enough to rub the residue off without forming balls of lint or furr. What are your guy's recommendations?

By the way, greeting from the ball of insanity they call senior year
Josh
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2003, 01:08 AM:
 
Usually, I don't use anything to wipe the tape residue off the film. If the film is not too oily, you can blot off old tape residue with a fresh piece of masking tape or splicing tape very much like you use tape to remove animal hairs or lint from your clothing. Unfortunately, some of the cheap splicing tape is almost impossible to peel off the film.

Granted, you have to "work at it" a little, but it is better than scratching the film.

As far as I am concerned, any movement of anything on a surface of anything that does not move with it will cause some form of scratching. In 16mm and 35mm applications, you might get away with it, but in a 70mm application, it can see a disaster waiting for a place to happen.

If you have to wipe the surface of the film, may I suggest using the media material that is used with film cleaners. I think Brad might be able to shed some light on the subject. However, if the film is wiped too hard, it is bound to scratch anyway. Just be very careful on doing it. The media pads when used on a film cleaner will not scratch the film because the pressure they exert on the film is like a feather touch, unless the roll jams at a spot where a hunk of dirt on the media drags on the film. I never saw that happen - not yet, anyway.

...and congratulations on high school graduation.
 

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Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 05-16-2003, 05:17 AM:
 
I let the goo soak a little in FilmRenew, which seems to disintegrate almost anything (as I've said before, it's great for cleaning spots off your ties). Then I use a bit of the web media from my film cleaner and finish it off with a light coat of FG. I figure that any microscopic scratches that I induce on the surface still beat the hell out of all that schmutz left over from the tape.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-16-2003, 07:07 AM:
 
Soft, lint-free wipes like "Kim Wipes" are often used. Even soft wipes should not be used dry, as any dirt captured can abrade dry film:

Kim Wipes

Kim Wipes BH Photo

BH Photo Cleaning Supplies
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2003, 08:10 AM:
 
"The problem is The CPI wipes or delicate task wipers arent good for much more than wiping your ass. "
_________________________________________________________________
Josh,
You're starting to sould alot like Paul !!!
Mark
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-16-2003, 08:54 AM:
 
CPI wipes are KIM wipes. Actually they're KIM wipes and a sticker.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 05-16-2003, 09:11 AM:
 
I've used Webril Wipes for years since good old Marty Bahn first put me onto them. The type I use are 3" 2-ply squares packed 100 or so to a sleeve. They're widely used in the printing industry (I get mine free from a friend who owns a newspaper), so a graphic arts store would be a good place to start looking for them. I've never seen any evidence of scratching with them.
 

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-16-2003, 09:14 AM:
 
The best way I've found to get tape adhesive residue off the ends is to use duct tape. Take a piece and stick it on the film end (use decent pressure to really stick it), but leave a tab at the end towards the reel. Peel it off and presto!, usually all the goo stays stuck to the duct tape and pulls off the film.
Pure isopropyl alcohol is fair for removing tape goo, it doesn't attack the emulsion, and leaves no residue. I'd rather not use FG for that job as it does leave a protective coating that the new tape might not stick to particularly well.
Heroic efforts to remove the goo usually get me a worse looking splice frame with scratches or emulsion layers peeled away. Goo shadows are less visible than scratches or bright green blotches.
 

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Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-16-2003, 09:14 AM:
 
As Paul said, I think even the softest cleaning material will scratch film with too much pressure. For spot cleaning of film I use generic cotton swabs with a "feather pressure" as Paul says. I've also discovered "ScottPure Critical Task Wipes" which seem to be Kimberley-Clark's top of the line. They will scratch film dry, if you press really hard, but they're the gentlest I've yet seen, way better than, say, lens tissue. They're extremely soft, yet tough, and don't develop lint. I got them online at Edmund Industrial Optics. Don't have any actual dry web media so I can't compare, though.

Of course cleaning the film dry is asking for trouble anyway... I always use Film-Guard or 99% isopropyl alcohol.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-16-2003, 09:31 AM:
 
I like to put on a pair of the white editing gloves, soak the fingers in Film Guard, and using my fingers in he gloves, carefully work the residue off. When you're done, go about three feet up the film strip and close (loosely) your gloved fingers on the film and pull the film CAREFULLY through the fingers. This will pull all the dust off, leaving it nice and clean. I've done this dozens of times, and it works nicely. No scratches. Just be patient, and don't over work it, and don't put too much pressure on it. It will all come off.

The only problem is that the end is usually so soaked in Film Guard, it can be difficult to re-splice with a tape splicer.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-16-2003, 10:25 AM:
 
Webril wipes:

http://www.artstuff.net/webril_wipes_and_pads.htm

http://www.dickblick.com/zz489/01/products.asp?param=0&ig_id=1796

http://www.misterart.com/store/view.cfm?store=001&group_id=1540

http://www.4onlineart.com/Safety-and-Cleaning/
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2003, 01:18 PM:
 
Duct tape works nicely. However, be sure to use high quality duct tape such as 3M. Some sledge-hammer specials that sell for $5.00 for a ten-roll pack will leave more residue than what they will remove.
 

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Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 05-16-2003, 03:33 PM:
 
When replacing gooey splices, I use filmguard on a piece of cotton cloth to dissolve and lift away the goo and dirt, then I wipe the film ends with a clean cloth soaked in Techchem Image film cleaner (pure tetrachloroethylene.) This wipes the filmguard right off, then quickly evaporates away, leaving the ends clean, dry, and ready to resplice.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 03:48 PM:
 
I agree with using Webril Wipes. Expensive, but worth it. Used them for many years in the large-format industry.

Also, someone mentioned film width Vs. visible damage and said it was more noticeable in 70mm. I disagree, the magnification is much less for comparable screens in 70mm than in 16 or 35mm.

Any noticeable flaws, including film grain, is inversely proportional to film frame size and directly propotional to magnification.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2003, 05:16 PM:
 
Phil, I'll correct myself about the 70mm. What I was thinking of is the Iwerks and Imax setups. One microscopic speck of dust will look like a big blob on the screen, from what I have been told. Is this correct?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 05:38 PM:
 
The only time that occurs is with a rolling-loop 1570 projector when dust or other debris gets caught on the "Field Flattener". Since it is an optical lense and in the focus plane, any crap appears on the screen as a big asteroid. Those projectors have a "wiper" or other method to remove collected crap during projection so a "clean" image appears on the screen.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-16-2003, 06:19 PM:
 
Phil, how bad will fine scratches in the emulsion side or base side show up on the screen?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 05-16-2003, 06:32 PM:
 
As with any screen and format, it all depends on the magnification.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 05-17-2003, 12:26 AM:
 
I do soak the wipes in film guard before wiping the film, but it leaves these little scratches behind beacuse you have to scrub to get the gunk off.

Josh
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2003, 12:31 AM:
 
Josh, try the duct tape approach if it is strictly a gunk problem. However, the duct tape will not remove chunks of cheap splicing tape. Those will have to be peeled off. The residue left behind can be pulled off with duct tape.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-18-2003, 08:31 AM:
 
First and formost, I use my fingernail to remove those little bits of tape that don't come off with the main pieces as you pull. One of the old timers used a scraping device for this and I found I didn't have nearly the control of the metal tip as I wanted and gave it up in favor of my fingernail. You have no better feedback indicator than your fingertips in judging how much pressure you are applying. You can use just enough to get the little piece off without scratching or damaging sprockets walls. Then I soak ordinary cotton balls with Ecco 1500 or 1,1,1,trichlorathane, and then gently wipe the gunk until it desolves. Both cleaning solutions will dry quickly without leaving any residue. If you still see streaks of adhesive, repeat the process. These products will even desolve the most hardened, years-old adhesive gunk in just a few applications. This method has never caused any scratching.

I have also read that lighter fluid desolves adhesive residue very well, but I have yet to be able to bring myself to squirt something that's designed to cause a fire, onto a piece of film.

Cotton balls tend to leave fibers, so I also save my worn all-cotton tee-shirts and cut swatches that work quite well -- they don't scratch and leave very little lint behind.

I have never used the duck tape method but will try it. Sounds interesting.

Frank
 

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Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 05-18-2003, 10:12 AM:
 
I agree with Frank; you still have to be careful about not gouging the film, especially after cutting your fingernails (I file 'em down nice and smooth first), but I don't think there's a substitute for fingernails for peeling splicing tape. I regret that conviction after working a film festival, however....

As far as getting gunk off with a solvent, I try to let it soak in first-- the longer the better-- to minimize the amount of scrubbing I have to do.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2003, 01:34 PM:
 

quote:

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As far as getting gunk off with a solvent, I try to let it soak in first-- the longer the better-- to minimize the amount of scrubbing I have to do.

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