Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Old Goldberg 2,000 Foot Rewinds Fixed For A Slow Ramp-Up

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-17-2003, 05:00 PM:

I have an old Goldberg 2000-foot film rewinder from the olden days. In the process of getting this thing running, I ran across a pleasant surprise.

Normally, most of those rewinders ramp up so fast that the film can cinch. This one does not. After looking it over carefully and well, I discovered it had a 14525 rpm 1/3 hp GE 230-volt motor.

The only thing I noted is that sometimes it would not start by itself, a little “push” was necessary about 50% of the time. The motor needed cleaning anyway, and when I knocked it apart, there was a 105 Ohm ballast resistor in series with the start winding. I removed that resistor and re-assembled the motor and re-installed it to the rewind.

The test results were excellent. It takes about 4 minutes 35 seconds to rewind a full 2,000 foot reel, and the ramp up was soooooo smooth.

I thought I would pass this along to the old film nuts that don’t like to use the old rewinders in fear of cinching the film. There is a “fix” for that, and it is well worth the effort. [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-17-2003, 05:06 PM:

They still suck. It forces an "S" wind.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 12:59 AM:

OK...I'm game. What is a forced "S" wind? [Confused]

I tested the rewinder tonight at least 15 times continous. The 230 volt motor running on 120 volts didn't even get warm. And the film pile on the old cast Goldberg reel was in perfect alignment with no protruding convolutions. [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2003, 02:09 AM:

The way the Goldberg rewinders are designed, you cannot wind exclusively emulsion out (or emulsion in, if you play for that team).

Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 05-18-2003, 03:45 AM:

Paul, It sounds like you are talking about the same machines that we still use in the Army and Air Force theaters. Yes it will make a tight wind ready for shipping or storage. Edges so smooth it looks/feels like it came through a bread slicer.

With the pulley ratio on this machine I can believe that a 220 volt motor would run OK on 120V.

Did you happen to notice a orange colored clutch wafer behind the supply reel (on the left). This is the friction clutch pad. It is adjustable. If the two fingers have not broken off then it will also hold the power switch on until the film runs out when it will automatically shut down.

We still are able to get parts for this machine from Goldberg in Denver. There is a parts list and diagram available though it looks like it was made on a high school drafting table sometime back in the 50's

Bill BuncH
Misawa, Japan

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-18-2003, 11:40 AM:

The Goldberg Model B (and 25) are CURRENT production items. They can also be ordered to run either direction (intended for 16mm) so you probably can run a constant emulsion orientation Brad.

Steve

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 11:57 AM:

William, it has a 15:1 ratio. The clutch wafer you speak of is intact, but I might have to disassemble it and give it a bath. The door latch collet has broken free of the door, so I guess I'll just take the door to a muffler shop and have it wire welded back on.

I think it is a good machine, although it apparently has been "cheapened up" alot.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 05-18-2003, 12:08 PM:

When I bought mine it needed new sleeve bearings , belt, and the door handle was broken. Installed new bearings, belt and welded the door handle back together and rebuilt the clutch assembly and it works fine. However my model B starts at full speed which makes me have to spin the reels before I engage the start switch. I strecthed a few 16mm prints with that thing before I learned about cinching.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 01:22 PM:

Sam, get a 1425 RPM 230 volt 1/3 horse motor, and you will fall in love with that rewinder because it will work so nice.... [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2003, 01:30 PM:

Paul, can you post a picture of the machine?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 02:01 PM:

Here She Be before I picked it up:

[ 05-18-2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-18-2003, 08:07 PM:

Paul--thanks! I like the look and the smooth winding characteristics of the Goldbergs, but I hate using them (and never wanted one myself) because I always thought that they damaged film because of the fast ramp-up. I'll have to try this modification whenever I run into another theatre that's using one of these.

Brad--you and Steve G. must be about the only people in the US who don't believe in the "S-wind" convention; everyone I've met (including a number of very good operators) feeds heads-out/emulsion-out and takes up tails-out/emulsion-in.

Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 05-18-2003, 08:18 PM:

I would suppose the door has a function of keeping out dirt and reducing static electricity but all of our doors except for one dissappeared long ago.

These things do start fast. You will cinch a film if it has come off a take-up that was adjusted "loose" or off of the hand rewinder. Our Simplexes always wrap tight on the take-up so there is no problem for us. Way to get around this is to start the take-up reel spinning with your right hand before the left hand hits the power lever. Then, no problem ever.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2003, 08:29 PM:

Yup, that's an "S" wind only. [thumbsdown]

Scott, for years people threaded platters by motoring the leader onto the floor or not doing something to prevent the leader from getting dirty (such as "threading up"). That doesn't make it right just because that's the way it was done for years. [Wink]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 08:34 PM:

William, that's the same thing I had to do when I ran most carbon-arc booths. I wish I would have discovered what I did about this specific rewind's motor type a long time ago.

I only remember two rewinds that were better than this one. One was configured with a communtator AC motor which took about 5 seconds to ramp up, but when that thing got a full head of steam, it would really move! The other was designed and built by Eldon Pollock. His was a slow ramp-up, slow rewind with a feather type clutch so the wind would not be too tight. Of all the years I operated that rewind, it never scratched or cinched a print. The rewind was shut down by a mercury switch that when, the tail of the film would slap it, would trip it off line. Eldon was a MIT graduate, and had it "all in one box"... [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-18-2003, 10:23 PM:

Brad, that rewinder pictured is the Goldberg Model B. It can be ordered with the take up to spin either way so it is not necessarily an "S" winder.

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2003, 10:26 PM:

Is there an idler roller in between the reels? Or is the new version not shaped like a pair of goggles? The ones I've used had no way to rewind the film maintaining emulsion orientation without scratching on the inside of the case.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-18-2003, 10:55 PM:

You can half-twist the film. I wouldn't recommend it on a regular basis, but it certainly is doable.

--jhawk

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-19-2003, 03:21 AM:

Well, anyway, it will have a good home 1500 miles from me when I finish it. [Smile]

Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 05-19-2003, 09:33 AM:

The Goldberg model K was designed for 3000 ft. reels and would wind in either direction. Otherwise it was the same as a model B.

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-19-2003, 10:05 AM:

Here is another picture of one.

Anyone see any problems with adding one or more good ball bearing guide rollers in the middle?

I use 2k reels at home and like the idea of not having to keep an eye on the rewinder.

Posted by Jim Spohn (Member # 1547) on 05-19-2003, 10:12 AM:

Paul..I thought I had the only one of these left but it seems not. I restored one these rewinds, it had a 110-220 volt motor and a resistor on the start winding. Bypassing the resistor and running the 220 set up on 110 made it perfect. As with yours the door handle system needed retrofit and the sleeve bearing on the take-up side needed welding. I am very particular with my film and won't rewind it on just anything, the unit set up as you describe is just right and far superior to my "Goldie"! I added a reversing switch so that I could rewind 16MM also, I had to add an additional micro-switch for auto stop in that direction. ....Jim

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 05-19-2003, 06:35 PM:

Pete,

Is that paislely velvet I'm seeing inside the bottom of that??!?

Danny [Eek!]

Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 05-20-2003, 09:07 AM:

Well, it looks like a fabric lining of some kind, but I'm not sure it's paisley. I'm guessing someone put it there to try and trap any dirt or Estar flakes that came off as the film rewound.

I don't have this unit yet, but will in a week or so. It's almost new compared to the clunker I have. I just couldn't resist the temptation. Ebay got me again. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-20-2003, 10:45 AM:

AFAIK, another reason some projectionists glued fabric inside the case was to minimize the damage to the slapping film end as the reels coasted to a stop. As others have noted, the abrupt stop/start of the stock unit tended to cinch film, especially if it was not a tight wind to begin with.