Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Failsafe identification

This is topic Failsafe identification in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 05-21-2003, 10:01 PM:

I have a failsafe of unknown maker. Could somebody help out?

Thanks.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-21-2003, 10:21 PM:

It almost looks like a Xetron design, but the split film weights are of a different color and shape. Kelmar liked the color red in some of their assessories, so that would be my next guess. The mounting of the micro switch is in such a manner that it does not really look like a Xetron. I think it is a "spin-off" of a Xetron.

In any event, the cue pick-off grounding roller sucks.

The bushings gather oil, and set up a resistance so the automations won't see the cue. They also require a llooonnnngggg cue foil of about 4 to 6 inches in order to register in some of the automation's brains. Xetron Maxi series is one of them.

To add insult to injury, the Maxi-8DC automation was so weak that cueing from that fail-safe was very unreliable. Maxi-8DC had nothing but an unfiltered 1/2 wave AC rail. The cue detector reliability could be increased by adding a filter to the rail, but that brought up the DC level so high that it would blow out the bezel lamps on the automation. But it still did not guarantee a 100% hit. Before I tossed all those style failsafes, I modified them with a 24VAC power supply to fire a relay which in turn would send a signal the automation could see. One bad side effect...after a week or so, the cue foil was "blown" and rendered useless. Re-cueing was then necessary.

Another thing to pay attention to - the grounding rollers get clogged and stick so they cannot rotate. If it is not caught in time, the roller will develop a flat spot.

Eventually, I ditched and tossed all of those styles of the basic Xetron design and replaced them with CE FM-35's.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 05-21-2003, 11:33 PM:

Looks like a SPECO.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-21-2003, 11:50 PM:

Ken, that was another I had in mind. They like red paint, too. [Smile]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-22-2003, 12:01 AM:

Looks like one I wouldn't want to use...don't rely on it for alwauys reading the cues......

Congrats on your 500th post!!!
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Stan Gunn (Member # 554) on 05-22-2003, 01:29 AM:

I have some of these and to best of my knowledge they were supplied with Christie plant, I've hade these for around 20 years, (must find a use for them one day) [sleep]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 05-22-2003, 08:44 AM:

Jeez guys,
Say something positive about the thing [Cool]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-22-2003, 08:58 AM:

It is a specco I have lots still in daily service.
If kept clean and foils in good shape they work
I always felt that mechanical split film detectors are less prone to glitchs than the optical ones that certain stocks fool

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 05-22-2003, 09:10 AM:

500th post [thumbsup]

I get a shirt [Smile]

Thanks Gordon [thumbsup]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-22-2003, 12:04 PM:

Sam, you wanted to hear something positive about them....Well, they sure are pretty! [Big Grin]

(edited for typos...My fingers seem to be uncordinated. [Big Grin]

)

[ 05-22-2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-22-2003, 01:33 PM:

quote:
... they sure are pretty!

Yes... and the wire tie is nicely trimmed, don't you think? [Razz]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-22-2003, 02:11 PM:

Sam, if you are going to use that thing, be absolutely sure it is in perfect alignment at all times, and replace that chinsy aluminum grounding roller with one made of brass. Run the roller "dry"....I don't think you would have too serious of wear problem, as there is no real load on it to speak of. If for some reason the roller quits turning, correct it ASAP because once a flat spot wears in, the roller would be useless. It will then start scratching your film.

I would recommend a proximity detector. However, the FM-35 may not be the best choice since you are running a RCA soundhead and a Brenkert. There are other units on the market that are not quite as touchy about oil build up on the film motion and film presence detectors.

In short, the FM-35 is a good detector, as long as you keep the oil out of it.

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 05-22-2003, 07:12 PM:

I had one that resembled that one on a Century JJ. The booth had no automation, so there wasn't any trouble with cue foils--we didn't use them.

But it was necessary to remove the hexogonal bar shown in the photo when running 70mm. Otherwise when a splice ran through it would hang up on that bar and the weights would drop, stopping the film, because the 70mm film was less flexible at the splice.

But as long as the rollers were kept clean, it worked fine.