Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Help with Neumade PRT ULTRA rewind table

This is topic Help with Neumade PRT ULTRA rewind table in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004952

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 06-01-2003, 07:48 PM:

I recently picked up a Neumade PRT Ultra rewind bench. I'm hoping you guys can give me advice on how to get it back to like-new condition after sitting idle for several years.
Pics were taken with table flipped and legs off after transport to my house.

First, does the motor need any care at all? There is no oil cup on this, as I've seen on other Neumade table motors. I checked the brushes which I have arrows pointing to. They're actually inch long pieces of what look like graphite.

The shafts are pretty tight on the arms themselves, do these need to be greased or oiled? If so, with what and how.

What about the tension pad? What is it made of? It appears to be some very hard, linoleum-like substance. Does it need to be oiled or anything like the pads do in take-up arms?

Not Pictured: Question about the legs. I've seen the horizontal bracing bar both on the operator side, and on the backside of these tables. Does it matter which way it is assembled? <i'd like to put a reel cabinet underneath, which is only possible if the brace is in back>

Thanks
Danny

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-01-2003, 09:28 PM:

The motor shouldn't need any work, these motors will run many hours with no trouble and if the brushes are not worn down then it probably hasn't seen a lot of hard service.
The drag brake should run dry. It isn't unusual to set these up with a spring instead of the foot control, pretty easy to do with a piece of threaded rod and a compression spring. Drill out the brake shoe hole to pass a 1/4 threaded rod screwed into where the cable adjuster thingy belongs, a spring and nut on top allows adjustable constant tension. If you use it mostly for revising the footbrake is OK, but for general rewinding I like a constant tension.
The brace is mounted in back.
There should also be an odd microswitch with a wire lever and a reset button on the powered end that gets hit by the film flapping when rewound to shut the motor off.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-02-2003, 12:24 AM:

If this is anything like the Neumade tables that I've seen: when inspecting film, do NOT try to turn the right-hand reel backwards (counter clockwise) by hand! For some reason, the motor will not let the reel spin freely even when it is turned off. Most likely, you will break the "key" on the reel shaft if you try to turn it too hard.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 06-02-2003, 03:34 AM:

Thanks for the info about the motor Dave.

Scott, you're correct, it's very difficult to turn the reel by hand. It's easiest to just slip the reel forward enough to disengage the dog/key if you pass a splice and need to go back.

Now I just need the info on how to lube the shafts. I don't think these have sealed bearings....

Danny

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 06-02-2003, 09:40 AM:

Yes, the flimsy little keys on the Ultra's shafts are notorious for breaking off. However, with the drive-dog spindles (and a little effort) you can usually turn the reel against the motor, and usually it will "break free" after a while. I prefer not to pull the reel out because it tends to either slip forward on the shaft and fall off the spindle, or slip back and catch on the dog/key again.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2003, 09:45 AM:

Actually the reason not to turn it backwards is that you are forcing against the pinion of the reduction gear as it is a right angle gear motor (like a RCA or SH1000 soundhead (don't try to turn the motor by the sprocket)

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 06-02-2003, 10:50 PM:

Scott, what model of Neumades do you have that problem on? Our Neumade (a Supra-X, I think) works fine when turned anticlockwise by hand. Are they all open-belt (ours is covered, also with a forw/reverse switch, which might have something to do with it).

It sure sounds like it would make using the rewind inconvenient.

--jhawk

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-03-2003, 04:14 AM:

jhawk--Look at the pics of the Wellesley College installation, which I think has the same mode Neumade that Danny has. I can't stand using that rewind bench for inspection purposes, though it's fine for rewinding reels. It only runs in one direction (clockwise) and doesn't have any reverse option at all. There are also other installations that I have seen that have a different bench with the same hardware that have this issue.

Give me a Kelmar (possibly modified for foot-pedal control) any day.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 06-04-2003, 12:13 AM:

Thanks everyone. I got it all cleaned up tonight. It's in the house now and running fine, except....

After I lubed up the shafts and got them spinning again, I put the spindles on and a junk reel of film. But, to my surprise, the full reel on the tension end was freely spinning, even though i was claming down the tension. It was then I discovered to my horror that one of the shafts that came with the table has no key!! [puke]

It just has a rusted out slot where the key must have busted off years ago. Which leads me to my forthcoming post on the Wanted forum.

Danny

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-04-2003, 01:32 AM:

Assuming the shaft is like almost every one I've seen, you could file down, bend and cut a nail so that it fits into the hole of the shaft and the back plate.

I've used nails as replacement keys on many rewinds... they usually last much longer than the 'proper' pieces.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 06-04-2003, 11:04 AM:

Don't be too surprised that you're missing a key... you're going to want to stock up on a whole supply of them. [Frown]

I never use a keyed shaft on an Ultra unless I absolutely have to (i.e., the reel has no drive holes). The keys on the Ultra-II, as well as Kelmar shafts, actually seem very robust indeed... and they aren't removable. However, I still wouldn't use them with larger than 2000' reels.