Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Perspecta System on ebay

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-06-2003, 01:47 PM:

FWIW: For any of you guys who might be interested, someone (not me) has a "supposedly" working Fairchild Perspecta decoder up on ebay currently. It's auction #3029034370. Despite their limited applicability today, these rarely show up for sale. As of the time of this post it's only up to $105.

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-06-2003, 04:39 PM:

The Perspecta unit on eBay looks complete in the picture. Looks just like the one I have except for a later power supply. Seller states something like worked when taken out of theatre several years ago.

Like my unit be prepared to replace all capacitors and expect the 25, 30, 35 hertz filters to be off from age that the unit probably does not work properly. Mine needed this filter work which means melting the wax in them, changing the caps, then checking if some padding was needed as they should be only plus or minus 1 hertz.

If someone is willing to work on it to get it running they don't sound bad at all. Manuals can be had for this unit on Marty's Wide Screen Museum site. There still a few of these out there.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-07-2003, 10:03 AM:

Good points, Dick. I've only heard one in actual use--the rebuilt unit at the Loew's Jersey during Forbidden Planet. It's certainly not a substitute for stereo, but there's definitely some noticeable "steering" which adds a bit of interest. I saw a NOS unused unit in place in Jeff Joseph's "Sabucat" screening room in LA recently, but we spent so much time running 3D there wasn't time to check out his print of North By Northwest with Perspecta.

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-07-2003, 07:18 PM:

Jeff,
The problem I have had is finding a good list of what film were released in Perspecta. A friend brought over "North by Northwest" several years ago from a classic run house and it, I think, did say Perspecta on the leaders but it was not. He also had "GiGi" with him and it was indeed. It seems that some of the films have been remixed. Not all say Perspecta in the credits.

I do agree even though it is not stereo it does indeed add a depth of sound to the picture. I wish the DVD makers would give us the option of hearing the sound as it was in it's first release.

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 06-07-2003, 08:29 PM:

I've rebuilt a couple of the Fairchild units and was there for the "Forbidden Planet" showing. The original unit that was installed at the Lowes didn't work, by the way, and the unit that you heard was trundled in at the last minute. It wasn't really set up for the proper levels, but the show sounded pretty good anyway, as you know. I repaired the broken Lowes unit last fall. I never had to melt out the wax on the Fairchilds, though. When I popped the tops on those filters, the caps were just sitting in there. I used a capacitor substitution box and just kept dialing until the filters were operating at the proper frequencies, then put in some pre-calibrated caps. The broken unit turned out to have a manufacturing defect that had gone unnoticed since the thing was built! In addition someone had tried to rewire it in order to use it with a different preamp. As far as I know, it's back in the rack now. Bob Furmanek would probably be able to tell you which films were done with the process. By the way, there was another unit manufactured by Hare that made the Fairchild look like something from Radio Shack. It was far superior. I've worked on them also and they're built much better than the Fairchilds.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-12-2003, 08:17 PM:

The seller pulled the Perspecta unit off eBay before the auction ended. He says he will relist it, knowing now that it is a decoder not an amp.

[ 06-12-2003, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Steve Kraus ]

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 06-13-2003, 04:56 AM:

One of these days I'd like to cobble together a unit with some op amps and a set of filters. It's those low frequency bandpass filters that are the problem. I especially liked the fact that the fellow claimed the unit was still in use until recently. That must have been one heckuva sound system.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-13-2003, 10:11 AM:

I have been impressed with the solid state card from the UK that replaces the cat 150

I would like to find the alignment reel for perspecta one day

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-13-2003, 05:01 PM:

Eh...just do it in software with custom DSP programming for the digital CP of your choice.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-21-2003, 06:00 PM:

Its back on E-Bay again if anyone is interested in it......
Mark

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3030885434&category=3284

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 06-21-2003, 07:48 PM:

Come on Mark, you know you want it!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-21-2003, 10:56 PM:

Na, No Interest at all. Remember I'm building a steam loco..... building high end home audio gear, photography, working too many hours, and have two dogs to tend to. Anyway, If I was interseted in Perspecta I'd buy the solid state card from England anyway.... Perspecta...thats just another one of those gimmicks like [dlp]

to lure folks back into the theatres..... And, like SDDS [Eek!]

, it all has to be in perfect working order for it to properly decode!!

Mark

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 06-22-2003, 08:05 AM:

Perspecta ranks on about the same level as those 1956 recordings of "Ping Pong Percussion", or the "Now I am standing on the right"....."Now I am standing on the left" stereo demo. Just think; someday they'll wonder why we were so impressed with plain old digital sound. Now that I've heard the new DVD recordings, I wonder why I thought CD's were so great, but I still listen to my wind-up Victor Orthophonic now and then.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 06-25-2003, 01:39 PM:

quote:
The problem I have had is finding a good list of what film were released in Perspecta.

I've tried to assemble such a list on more than one occasion in the past ten years, but I usually end up throwing the list away out of frustration! I've compiled numerous similar lists over the years (scope, 4-track mag, 70mm, etc.) but a list of Perspecta-encoded titles has proven to be extremely difficult. Without one gaining access to studio documentation, assembling an accurate list will remain a challenge.

I once read an unpublished article where a (not-so-very-well-respected) film historian made a claim that over 3,000 productions had used Perspecta. I find that difficult to believe.

quote:
Not all say Perspecta in the credits.

I think very few of them mentioned Perspecta in the credits. Paramount's 1956 War And Peace and a couple of the Akira Kurosawa productions are titles seen recently that did have a credit.

quote:
I wish the DVD makers would give us the option of hearing the sound as it was in it's first release.

The only example of this I can think of is Criterion's The Hidden Fortress, which had a Dolby Digital 3.0 DVD soundtrack attempting to replicate the original Perspecta effect.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 06-25-2003, 02:32 PM:

Here's what I can tell you:

MGM used Perspecta on everything (cartoons, shorts, even trailers) between the Summer of 1954 and sometime in 1957. The first US release was BETRAYED and the first in the UK was KNIGHTS OF THE ROUNDTABLE. They stopped sometime in 1957. JAILHOUSE ROCK was one of the last titles with Perspecta.

Warner Bros. used it on its A features starting with LUCKY ME in the Fall of 1954. I don't know when they stopped.

Paramount used it on its VistaVision releases starting with WHITE CHRISTMAS in 1954. They stopped sometime in 1956.

Universal-International used it on their A features starting in the Fall of 1954. They stopped in 1957.

United Artists used it on some features. The first was THE BAREFOOT CONTESSA in 1954.

Allied Artists also used it occasionally. The only title that I know for sure with Perspecta was INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.

I can find no record of Columbia, RKO, or Republic using it.

Each studio had their own approach to the process. MGM, Universal and Warner Bros. went for all out panning throughout the entire film. The tracks that I've heard include Forbidden Planet, Black Shield of Falworth, One Desire, The Benny Goodman Story, This Island Earth, Brigadoon and King Richard and the Crusaders. When mixed properly (the Universal prints would occasionally have problems with exaggerated gain levels) it was very effective.

Paramount was very selective, and only used the left/right speakers for dramatic effect. For instance, the VistaVision music begins in the center speaker. As the V comes forward and the music swells up, the audio kicks in at top level on all 3 speakers. It's a very effective use of the process. However, the audio is mostly center channel except for an occasional off-screen voice or sound effect. I've heard White Christmas, Seven Little Foys, Three Ring Circus, Strategic Air Command, You're Never Too Young and several others. They're not terribly impressive if you're looking for full directional sound.

I haven't heard the UA titles, and only reel one of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Except for the main titles, everything else was center channel.

While there may be something like 100-150 features in the system, I would not put any stock in someone's claim that there were thousands!

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-26-2003, 04:07 AM:

Most of what Bernie says is right on. I don't know how many films were in Perspecta. I was told most of MGM's films from 1953 or so for a few years were. I know the 1954 GWTW was released in Perspecta with approval and guidence from David O himself. It didn't sound too bad.

I did like the VistaVision use of it with the V expanding to all three channels. "White Christmas" sounded OK as did "To Catch a Thief". You can add "Friendly Persuasion" to the Allied Artist list as I have a purple print of it and it is Perspecta.

The Japanese seemed to have it longer than we did. I read one of their sales flyers called "The Far East News" dated 1955 with licensed 6 Perspecta companies and only 1 for 4 track magnetic. I believe "The H Man" had Perspecta Stereophonic Sound in the credits. I think that was made in the early 60's.

I have rebuilt the exact Fairchild that was on ebay and thought it sounded fine. I still have it. Not full stereo but added a depth that mono did not have. I also do have a Hare version but no pre-amp, power supply, or manual. Some time when i get time i will tear into it. It does look a lot better built then the Fairchild. I do agree with Gordon the card from the UK is the way to go. I have one and am very satisfied with it. It just goes in place of the Dolby Cat #150.

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 06-26-2003, 08:17 AM:

Dick, Perspecta was introduced by MGM in the Summer of 1954. There were no releases from 1953 in the process. Somebody wrote in a Macfarland book on 3-D movies that some of those films had Perspecta tracks. That's not true. 3-D was dead by the time Perspecta premiered.

I've been told that AROUND THE WORLD IN 80 DAYS used Perspecta on the surround channels to steer the mono optical signal to left, center and right speakers.

When we ran a new 35mm print of FORBIDDEN PLANET in Perspecta at the Loew's Jersey last year (on a 50 foot screen) it sounded terrific. Quite a few people commented after the show that they thought it was real stereo! The fifty foot speaker spread helped a great deal.

Have you noticed the problem with gain levels on some of the Universal titles? THE BENNY GOODMAN STORY and ONE DESIRE are like that. You'll have a reel change, and all of a sudden one channel will kick in at twice the audio level. Sure can be annoying!

How is the mix on FRIENDLY PERSUASION? Were they going for a full spread, or just occasional dialogue and effects?

Also, I've heard that the Dolby card does not accurately replicate the systems ability to alter gain levels on the 3 seperate channels. Is that true?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-26-2003, 09:54 AM:

The from the Uk that replaces the cat 150 has full gain riding using LM3900 transconductance amplifiers.
I beleive the one from chase that fits a Cat 150 or the USL switchs channels
I would like to get the actual test reel that was carried by Altec

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-26-2003, 02:15 PM:

Two bids, sold for $179.50.

Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 06-26-2003, 03:03 PM:

Bernie,
The UK card seems to work very well and handle the volume levels nicely. I don't have my Fairchild on line any more so I can't make a side by side comparison. Remembering the same cartoon I used for testing the Fairchild being held on reacted a teenie bit better. I had not found the test film until after I removed the Fairchild. The card played the test film perfectly. I still would recomend the card for anyone wishing a good Prerspecta showing with out rebuilding an origional unit. I have never heard the Chase version.

I have not heard any Universal prints at all. Friendly Persuasion was just occasional effect and some directional. Not the best track mix.

The Perspecta mix on "Around the World in 80 Days" was on the 4 track only mag print in the surround track. I sent Marty at Widescreen Museum a copy of a RCA service bullitin describing the surround Perspecta encoding and it's posted on the site. That will explain it better then here.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 06-27-2003, 05:12 AM:

Dick wrote:

quote:
The Perspecta mix on "Around the World in 80 Days" was on the 4 track only mag print in the surround track. I sent Marty at Widescreen Museum a copy of a RCA service bullitin describing the surround Perspecta encoding and it's posted on the site. That will explain it better then here.

Did you ever hear this? I think it would have been an interesting mix, but I've nver met anyone who actually heard it.

Most of the Perspecta I have heard has been cartoons, perhaps the least appropriate use for it, as most of them rely heavily on music. Most cartoons seem to keep almost everything in the centre, with just an occasional panned effect. I have even seen one which said Perspecta on the leader, had the center channel 35 Hz. tone present throughout at constant amplitude, and was therefore single channel non-directional mono. Why? [Confused]

Using Perspecta on the surround channel, being as it is, largely effects, might work rather well. It is probably the only way that a system with directional surrounds could have been carried on a 35mm print at that time, given the very limited track space available. It's a pity it wasn't used on any other films. I have heard conflicting reports as to whether the 70mm version used a Perspecta surround, does anyone know for sure?

Of the conventional Perspecta tracks I have heard, I think the 'Forbidden Planet' one was the most effective.