This is topic DTS To Discontinue Support of DTS 6 Units In One Year in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-07-2003, 04:20 PM:
 
We received notofication of this from DTS last week. For those with model 6 players, they are offering a trade in program towards the new HD based player. So either stock up on DTS 6 parts or partake in the program before it expires. After one year once your player dies its gone forever.
I was surprised they were able to support that old AT computer stuff even this long!!
Mark
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 06-07-2003, 04:46 PM:
 
That upsets me a bit, but at the same time I can see why they are doing it. Their technology is so ancient that it has been obsolete for a long time, and very difficult to support when certain components are no longer even made (similar reason to why Christie switched LED styles in their AW3 platter system from what I've heard). I guess that's what happens when you base your product on a standard computer. Which leads to the question: Is the new DTS unit running on consumer grade hardware (albeit more advanced)? If so, then DTS will eventually have to drop that, too. Probably wouldn't be for at least a decade, though.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-07-2003, 05:17 PM:
 
This is a preview for what will happen with systems.

(They are still supporting the 6D units though...for the moment at least.)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-07-2003, 06:20 PM:
 
They did switch the mommie board on the 6D to ATX from the older obsolete AT style as is used in older 6D's abd the 6. I usually go to the resale shop to get good power supplies for any of the DTS units with AT style boards. Now that they have gone to ATX that makes buying new supplies easy. Far as I know the 6D will be around for a very long time....if not the new HD based XD unit is an even better choice anyway.
All of this is is a very good example of why I still prefer to install a really good analog processor and just hang a digital whatever onto it...... In theory, the analog processor should have a life span of at least three times what any digital based product will, perhaps even longer.
Mark
 

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Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-07-2003, 07:10 PM:
 
This again confirms, i'm getting old. -I still find dts a new invention, even if my first unit is 9 years old by now.

Buy, plug, play and throw away has never been my lifestyle (DP70, Happy thoughts and so..) The dts-6 has never failed yet, why the f... change it. (The 6-D went down after 13 months and again one year later - will next chapter be like that ?) I have always found dts very supportive, and if they are going to drop customers, who supported dts from start, i'll be most disappointed. But once again: if a manufacturer makes his stuff too solid, he'll be out of business someday, cause noone needs to chance for new model. I can get parts for DP70, for CP65 and all, then why not for DTS...

This better be good, Karen

Per
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 06-07-2003, 07:30 PM:
 
Some enterprising soul might make a business of keeping "6"s alive and supplied with parts!
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-07-2003, 07:35 PM:
 
Hmmm... I've got boxes full of 386 and 486 mother and daughter boards.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-07-2003, 07:40 PM:
 
This is unfortunate, but probably the inevitable result that one would expect with any product which is based on hardware which becomes obsolete quickly.

The good thing is that DTS units tend to be fairly reliable, except for a few parts (drives and power supplies) which are fairly standard and are user-replaceable with parts which can be found in junk piles. As long as the older units will still play disks for current films (they do), I don't see much of a problem.

Isn't the DTS 6D still a current product? If so, I doubt that DTS would drop support for it for a long time. There are lots of 6Ds out there and DTS would have many angry customers if they were to drop support for it.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-07-2003, 09:43 PM:
 
I agree that they will live for a long time....I've only replaced two motherboards(but many drives and power supplies) since they came out...and thats two out of hundreds of units I've either installed, or serviced over the years. However this obsolescence has extended to the time code and d to a boards as well....DTS is basically abandoning the whole player. On the other hand they are offering the trade in/up so one is not left in the dark with the old unit and this is more than fair if you ask me. Not many manufacturers offer any credit for older equipment they made over a decade ago!
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-07-2003, 11:06 PM:
 
The DTS 6 which I have was only manufactured 5/96 - a scant 7 years ago (as compared to my 45 year old Simplex XL's). If I had any inkling that DTS would not support their products, I would have bought Dolby.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-07-2003, 11:32 PM:
 
Seriously how many 45 year old RCA Photophone, Mirrophonic or Simplex sound systems are still operating, or the techs or existing factory support......Both DTS and Dolby are doing a good job, within reason, in supporting their products. Some items such as real estate have long multidecade depreciation and other items such as computers and other state of the art products, much less so....in seven years you should of received a greater financial return due to your wise decision to purchase digital sound.
Richard Fowler
Kinoton America Inc.
 

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Posted by Marc Jones (Member # 29) on 06-07-2003, 11:57 PM:
 
just curious I know my DTs 6, and 6d use ISA cards which present a problem if your trying to find replacements mother boards. Is the DTS (analog processor/DTS ) processor on this same platform or filled with ISA type of cards?
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-08-2003, 09:09 AM:
 
Hey, look on the bright side. If it was just a regular computer, it would already be WAAAAAY past its warranty. Computers you buy today have at MOST a 3-year warranty (with an option to buy a 5 year) but nothing more than that. After the warranty runs out, you're SOL. I had my graphics card AND a CD-ROM go bad in my computer just a few months after the warranty...

The fact that DTS has supported these units for almost ten years is great. Like others have said though, parts get harder and harder to find as the unit gets older. It's not the first time a company has discontinued support for a... oh what's that fancy word they use now.... "LEGACY" product!

This could also be a good thing... maybe we'll see some cheap DTS-6 units show up on the used market, allowing for a cheap upgrade to digital sound for the little guy.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-09-2003, 09:43 AM:
 
I was under the impression the manufacturer was supposed to support their specific model product for 10 years after it was introduced....
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 06-09-2003, 10:04 AM:
 
We have a room literally FULL of old ATs 386s, 486s, etc. -- all the old computers. I am sure there are high schools and colleges which, unlike most corporate entities, tend to be very reluctant junk equipment, no matter how obsolete. The CUNY system to which we are attached has a bureaucratic merry-go-round that you have to ride on before you can dispose of any equipement. They create this system but then cut back the personnel to impliment it so no one can throw anything out so it just sits there. We have enough working 386s to repair the DTS units for decades. The real question is, will the disks eventually be phased out? Or will the tracks still come on disks and uploaded to the HD and then run from it?

Frank
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 06-09-2003, 10:12 AM:
 
It doesn't seem to me that the computer parts side of the DTS system would be a problem, but rather the drives and their interface. My system has never been upgraded and still runs with the caddys. When I first got the system I looked around on the net and found what I believe to be (they were sold as) factory refurbished drives of the same model. But they were had to find even then. I think maybe the drives will be the weak link.
I think the HD system is a great idea. I can see all sorts of possiblities for storage of trailers and backing up sound tracks etc. Dual Hdrives woo-who
I never did get a price on it though
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-09-2003, 10:37 AM:
 
My understanding is that the 'trade-in' credit being offered by DTS towards the HD system is $850.00.

What is the cost of the new HD system?
 

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Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 06-09-2003, 11:44 AM:
 
Seems like you could get more than $850.00 on the used market, it would seem more theatres would have digital sound if the conversion with used parts was just over $1000.00.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-09-2003, 02:53 PM:
 
Actually he cady drives are the best ones....should I say, last the longest, but will eventally fail too. The mommieboard has a special BIOS on it so that forcludes using any generic 486 mommieboards. The other support cards also require apecial stuff to run and those are also going to the dumpster.

Paul,
Jurassic Park appeared in 1993, and this is 2003, so it is about 10 years time.......give or take a month or so.
Mark
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 06-10-2003, 06:20 PM:
 
We are still using discs to distribuate DTS sound tracks.

The XD10 standard unit (no options) sells for $6,950.00 list price. The unit includes all interconnect cables, a 35mm reader, a reader mounting bracket, a manual, and DTS trailers. A wallchart will soon be released to help guide new users through the XD10.

Our first player, the DTS-6 (2-drive), just like me at DTS, has been around for 10-years and debuted with our first release, JURASSIC PARK. At that time, the system sold for $2,500.00. Getting credit for the return of your DTS-6 (whether working or not) towards the purchase of a XD10, is a pretty good deal, IMO.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-10-2003, 06:53 PM:
 
Happy aniversary, Karen When is the party ?

I don't think, i can still locate that bill from november 1994 for my first dts unit, but if my memory does not cheat me, local danish dealer more than doubled up that price...

Not that i have ever thought, i did not get my money worth, but this sounds a bit less than nice. -The dealer is not in business any more, but it's sure not due to too little profit on Your product, he went down

Looking forward to learn about the next dts miracle -

all the best !

Per
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 06-10-2003, 07:24 PM:
 
Karen
Will the new rack unit work with the older readers and wiring?
 

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Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 06-11-2003, 01:06 AM:
 
I don't know it this has been proposed before but the thought just occured to me - wouldn't it be cool if DTS provided a download site where theatres could download and burn the discs they need? I know there's so many second run and repertory prints missing their discs as so many evil first run theatres have a tendancy to just pile them up in a corner.

I'm sure there'd be a possible copyright issue as well some problems with the licensing from one country to the other. Still, seem s like it would be cool.

Of course, there's always Kazaa...
 

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Posted by Matt Close (Member # 996) on 06-11-2003, 02:04 AM:
 
Brad even offered to host d/l's on Film-Tech, but apparently there is some crapola copyright reason he can't

Now call me crazy, but tell me ..... in this day and age of pretty darn fast computers, would it not be possible for DTS to develop a mostly software decoded DTS solution for theatres. Imagine a special 6-channel sound card and a DTS reader plugged in to a serial port as being all you need to add to a PC to make it do the job. With the low price of computers, CD-roms and hard-drives these days it would surely be a very low-cost solution...... Which to small independant theatres like mine, would be a very, very attractive idea. I'm sure there would be a lot more DTS out there if it were affordable for everyone. Of course I have no idea what the insides of the the new DTS HD unit contain, but perhaps it 'is' more software based than the older models.... and if it is, perhaps the technology they have already developed could be applied to this PC based idea. And DTS could keep costs down further because we would be responsible for taking care of the main hardware side of things, meaning they would not have to factor as much warranty service in to the purchase price. And upgrades could be made easy too .... More channels in the future? Update the software and throw another special DTS sound card in! ..... No need to buy more expensive boxes or replace entire units......

Like I said .... call me crazy .... but be honest guys..... Wouldn't it interest you if your theatre could afford to have EVERY screen equipped with DTS?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 06-11-2003, 02:15 AM:
 

quote:

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Imagine a special 6-channel sound card and a DTS reader plugged in to a serial port as being all you need to add to a PC to make it do the job. With the low price of computers, CD-roms and hard-drives these days it would surely be a very low-cost solution......

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So low a cost that DTS wouldn't last too long selling a relatively low volume product at such a low price.
 

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Posted by Matt Close (Member # 996) on 06-11-2003, 02:54 AM:
 
How many more screens would equip with DTS though if it was really affordable??? Perhaps that would offset the problem you suggested.....

I know I would! Currently we are talking around $11,500 (AU) for a DTS-6D, which I can't convince my owner is worth spending

This next bit I am taking a guess at, because I have no idea if DTS gets paid everytime a film includes a DTS soundtrack... but,

If DTS were to become THE format due to mass adoption of the format because of the low cost of such an idea for theatres...... wouldn't DTS they also make 'more' money through DTS sound probably being put on to EVERY film released?
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-11-2003, 02:59 AM:
 
I don`t think so: we are talking about a couple of 10.000 screens, not the millions and millions of customers that home entertainment hardware finds and which make those technologies so cheap when they have been adopted by enough people.
You have what you are asking for in a different form in the dts and Dolby decoders which are in countless millions of home systems. These systems now are relatively cheap because the DVD technology in all its aspects is established in a huge worldwide market.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-11-2003, 08:44 AM:
 
The D to A convertors in the 6 and 6D are of extremely high quality, and you'd find that adds to the expense. The 6 has the best of the audio cards and has Jensen transformers on the output......thats as good as it gets. Personally I wouldn't want them to change a thing, nor offer it any other way.
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 06-11-2003, 09:10 AM:
 
Another problem with downloading the ".AUD" files on the disks is that they are huge. Unless you live on a very fast internet connection it would take a long long time to download those files. Even cable internet has a problem in that the upload speed is usually nowhere near the download speed.
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 06-11-2003, 04:46 PM:
 
Greg - The readers have not changed and the reader & power cable will be the same. All other cables will change.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Phil Radosevich (Member # 508) on 06-12-2003, 07:27 AM:
 
I'm I getting this right? Is DTS discontinuing all of the "6" line including the d or just the older style
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-12-2003, 08:27 AM:
 
Phil,
Just the older two drawer unit.
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-12-2003, 09:49 AM:
 
Regarding posting the AUD files online, If one really wanted to, just set them up on an FTP server or what have you with a password for access. If the "copyright police" tell you to shut it down, just move it or change it's name and it will take them another couple months to find it. Or just re-name the files to something completely different and provide a text file translation to those who require it.

Honestly, if Workprint copies of The Hulk are ALREADY circulating around the internet, the studios REALLY need to sit down and re-assess where these copyright violations are coming from. Thing is, it's probably easier to bust some schmoe with a videocam in a theater or someone trading DTS-AUD files which are of no use to anyone else than it is for the studios to go after "their own" who are making copies of workprints, screeners and telecine transfers. Bass-ackwards!!!

=TMP=

EDIT: Graemlins added.

[ 06-13-2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: Thomas Procyk ]
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 06-12-2003, 01:38 PM:
 
We will cease servicing the DTS-6 (2-drive) player bu the end of this year.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-12-2003, 03:16 PM:
 
Quite Frankly it seems like awful short notice to me.

I bought a used 2 drawer unit just last year. If I had been told this by the Dealer from whom I purchased (or had any indication this was coming) I certainly would have bought something else.

Once again "Buyer Beware"
 

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Posted by Tom Kroening (Member # 201) on 06-12-2003, 06:53 PM:
 
You'd think you would have known that the unit would not be supported very long because it came out 10 years ago and is not sold as new today! I'm sure your unit will be fine for years to come and if its not you won't have trouble finding parts from other used equipment. As far as using a PC for DTS decoding its an interesting idea but I don't think it would ever come into play. If it did it would still have to have proprietary DTS hardware and OS to run on because of viruses and pirates. Not to mention that cheap PC's aren't made to last 10 years running all day long every day in a hot projection room. $6,000 after trade isn't really that much for a theatre to spend, especially when equipment money is budgeted and saved like it probably should be. Now, $6,000 x 20 decoders gets a bit pricey, maybe there should be a trade-as-it-breaks program for larger theatres.
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-12-2003, 10:40 PM:
 
Since I am not computer "savy" (for lack of a better phrase) it simply did not even occur to me that the equipment would be considered outmoded in such a short period of time. Especially that when you consider that in my 35 years in this business, I have seen properly cared for equipment last for decades. (Heck even my Dolby CP-55 is 15 years old and - although upgraded - parts are readily available).

Perhaps if the announcement had not occurred at the same time as the marketing push for the their new 'whiz-bang' gaget, I would not be so suspicious.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-12-2003, 10:49 PM:
 
Well, DTS has been putting out new "gagets" all along. Quite frankly I'm surprised they supported the oldie as long as they have.

The new XD10 seems like a great product, in fact film-techers "guessed" the basic idea (hard-drive based system) a good year or more before it was announced. I'm already working on rearranging the budget so I can afford one.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-12-2003, 10:49 PM:
 
Well, Jonathan, if the computer world hadn`t developed so dynamically, we wouldn`t be here on this website looking at multicolored chat boxes with peoples`pictures, downloading hi-res scanned manuals or videos and many other things!
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-12-2003, 11:52 PM:
 
John,
10 years for anything electronic is quite good...20 is even better and a good reason to buy an analog processor as the heart of any theatre sound system. Also, parts are not as available for your CP-55 as you might think. We have gobs of them in this neck of the woods, and unfortunately Dolby has never been very hip about supporting their older units. There are certain modules for the CP-55 that are VERY scarce and even Dolby may only have one or two on the shelf at a given time......
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 06-13-2003, 07:08 AM:
 
Mark said:
"10 years for anything electronic is quite good...20 is even better..."

One problem I have seen consistently is that component parts manufacturers (some much worse than others) discontinue parts such as IC's at an alarming rate. Now I understand their business decisions, but if they have convinced me to use a proprietary part in one of my designs, and then discontinue said part a short time later, I am screwed. I have to go back and re-design to get around that problem.

In one case, a DSP micro processor that was at the heart of one design was discontinued in only one year from its introduction.

I would love to see parts vendors keep parts in their line for a few years so that Mark's 10 to 20 years scenario can play out as it should.

So far, SMART will service anything it has ever made as long as parts can be obtained. But I must tell you that it is getting really hard to justify keeping something alive that we made 25, or even 15, years ago. On a few occasions, I have thought about discontinuing support for some of our older products which should have long since been retired, but my customers would have a fit if they called and we told them no support is available.

This kind of thing is truly a tough call, and DTS has apparently had the resolve to make that hard decision. For this, I applaud them.
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 06-13-2003, 07:28 PM:
 
Some of the parts used in the DTS-6 (2-drive) player are obsolete and are no longer available in the marketplace. Many of these parts have no direct replacement. It is for that reason that we can no longer service these units.

I'll still be around to answer questions on the unit. I promise not to hang up when you mention the DTS-6. I'll still send you wiring diagrams, I promise.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-13-2003, 10:18 PM:
 
quote:
"I would love to see parts vendors keep parts in their line for a few years so that Mark's 10 to 20 years scenario can play out as it should."
_________________________________________________________________
Oscar,
What I meant was that by purchasing an all analog processor such as a CP-65. Panastereo, Mod 2 or that sort of thing is that the 10 to 20 year scenerio would be alot easier to play out. The analog chips used in those processors will be around for many, many years to come, with the likelyhood of better replacements if they do become obsolete. This parts availability is one of analog equipments best features, other than the fact it almost always sounds better too.

Indeed anything with any "digital", or "DSP" stuff inside it has far less liklyhood of surviving that time frame....and to me, hanging the film sound digital processor outboard is a far better idea than integrating it into a unit....such as Sony, or Dolby has done....
Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-14-2003, 08:44 AM:
 
I can't concur with Mark's response on the CP-55...

Looking at the unit and its modules...

The Cat. 240 preamp can be replaced with the Cat. 240A
The Cat. 222 can be replaced with either the Cat. 222A or the Cat. 222"SR/A" (current module in the CP-45, a current product).
The Cat. 150C can be replaced with the Cat 150E (used in a current product the SDU4) or the Cat 150F

The Cat. 64s are certainly repair exchangeable or replaced and ultimately repaired (nothing high-tech there).

The Cat 242 is obtainable new or RX.
The Cat. 241 can be upgraded to the Cat 441, which makes the unit ready for digital.
The Cat 243 can be replaced with the Cat 443 and I believe the Cat.243 is still on the RX list in any event (don't know of any single-source devices on it to prevent repair).
The Cat 249 can be upgraded to the Cat 249A with better regulation and filtration
I believe even the Cat 250 (transformers/fuses and bypass switch) can be upgraded to the Cat. 250A.

So, on a module by module basis, the CP-55 is WELL supported. Not that one would want to replace everything at once but if something fails in a CP-55, the owner of that unit is not faced with spending several thousands of dollars to get it up and running again...hundreds, yes, but not thousands.

In fact, even the CP-50 is rather well supported and it has been out of production for nearly 20-years with most everything in it designed in the '70s.

Now back to the DTS-6...

In this (movie exhibition) industry, it is expected that equipment last forever...a realistic expectation or not. I suspect that a 10-year service life will not sit well with exhibitors for ANY piece of projection equipment...it isn't what they are used to. With chains, they won't be looking at the potential cost of replacing one unit but hundreds to thousands...each carrying how much cost?

I am curious as to just what has become so obsolete in the DTS-6 (that isn't obsolete in the 6D) that would signal the abandonment of the unit (at least that is how it seems to be presented).

For instance, the CD-ROM issue (CD-ROMS have become passe) would affect both. So, if one has a CD-ROM failure (yes it can happen ) why wouldn't the fix for one also fix the other?

How different are the time-code boards (aside from the round leds versus the rectangular ones)?

I have had one Time-Code board go hooey on me, a couple of power supplies and my share of CD-ROM failures...the time code board had bad lip-sync switches (it would change lip-sync mid show!!).

Looking at that sort of service record in 10-years...it seems pretty damn reliable to me. The DTS-6 was built VERY well, not just componentry but the actual assembly was well done.

So, on the DTS-6, can the drives still be supported along with the 6D? Likewise with the power supplies?

Other than that what else have you all had fail on you?

Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-14-2003, 09:37 AM:
 
Quote:
"So, on a module by module basis, the CP-55 is WELL supported."

"In fact, even the CP-50 is rather well supported and it has been out of production for nearly 20-years with most everything in it designed in the '70s."

"I am curious as to just what has become so obsolete in the DTS-6 (that isn't obsolete in the 6D) that would signal the abandonment of the unit (at least that is how it seems to be presented)."

_________________________________________________________________

Try to get a backplane or the front panel switch card sometime.... Dolby may or may not have a refurbished one in stock.....Definately no new stock on these, unless that has changed in the last year or so. I have run into problems getting both of these although they eventually came through. I wouldn't hesitate to sell a 55 today as you are correct about the najority of the cards.

The CP-50 is probably the BEST example out there of why to install an all analog processor!! A good portion of the 5000 plus units built are still out there working someplace or other, usually with a DTS on them.

On the DTS the problem is availablity of older AT style ISA type interface hardware. Same goes for the Large Format 8 chan. P-8 players. When they die thats pretty much it for them, but there is the 6d-SV which somewhat plugs right in place along with an E-175 TC converter. There is no one at DTS any longer that even knows the P-8!
The 6D's, I believe but have to verify, have been changed to using ATX style hardware in them, identifiable by the rocker switch on the rear of the power supply by the AC conector. It may also be possible to convert an existing 6D that has an AT board and power supply over to ATX......however, these things I'd have to verify, or perhaps Karen could comment as to how thay will support the thousands of 6D's with AT hardware in them......
IN regards to DTS failures in my area of service......I have lost and still loose alot of 6 and 6D power supplies. Mainly what happens is that dust is sucked in the fan bearings, the fan seizes up and then stops. All the while the power supply is still going but running at temperatures thata re way too hot and eventually it will fail. I've had units whose power supply boards were charcoal black! Other than power supplies, I still see an occasional switching power supply failure on the audio board in 6D's, and have had to replace two mother boards, one of which was form a unit that had been in a fire..........That unit also needed much other internal work but is still working fine with its scorched black rear panel!

Mark
Mark
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-14-2003, 10:10 AM:
 
Mark said"Try to get a backplane or the front panel switch card sometime.... Dolby may or may not have a refurbished one in stock.....Definately no new stock on these, unless that has changed in the last year"
I have never had to replace the back plane except where traces have been burnt by someone being stupid and then it is repaired with wire and soldering iron there is no middle plane on that board to worry about
Switch card the switchs if they fail can be got from eaton switch and several asian firms but not in the old grey colour but in yellow or red but they are pin compatable and work
AT powersupplys are still available from several OEM manufacturers as a lto of industrial equipment is still AT and ESA based
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-14-2003, 10:52 AM:
 
"I have never had to replace the back plane except where traces have been burnt by someone being stupid and then it is repaired with wire and soldering iron there is no middle plane on that board to worry about"
_________________________________________________________________
I've had defective back planes on both a CP-50, and a CP-55. Most likely the result of rough handling in both cases....both units were purchases used. Certainly the switch card could be rebuilt with available OTS componebts if one has the time to do it. In both my cases for both cards I borrowed them from other units on the shelf till Dolby could get one to us.
Mark
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-14-2003, 11:14 AM:
 
The "standalone-PC-as-DTS-player" seems like a really bad idea to me, both for DTS and for the user. Selling the cards and the reader (only) to be used with a standard PC is just begging for someone to go out and buy the cheapest bottom-of-the-line PC that happens to be on sale this week at Best Buy and then complain to DTS in a year or two about reliability problems and poor support. Given the choice of buying a cheesy $500 PC or a $1500 (or more) "server appliance" rackmount unit (from QSOL, etc.), most theatre owners (who are cheap by definition) will go with the cheaper option and then wonder why they are having problems with their DTS setup. This isn't to say that some wouldn't choose to use decent hardware and end up with a reliable system, but that most wouldn't bother.

For reasons of both profitability and reputation, DTS would do much better by packaging higher-quality hardware that is known to be reliable into its own units and selling (and supporting) those units to theatres.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-15-2003, 12:04 AM:
 
As to the CP-55 backplane or front panel switch board...I can't say I have EVER need to replace them. I've had a couple with cold solder joints on them (backplane) but that is about it. Whereas neither are high-tech boards (single-sourced active components) and both are "through-hole" double-sided boards...ultimately they are field repairable....even if catastrophic failure were to occur.

Then again, if the failure was dramatic enough, I'd probably recommend that the unit be retired...if the exhibitor had more CP-55s...scrap the unit for parts to keep the others working.

Of course you could change the backplane to the CP-65 one and replace the front panel and get yourself a CP-65 with just a couple board upgrades (443 would be required...the 241 WILL work in the CP-65) and the card guides would probably need to be moved. This isn't something I would recommend but it theoretically can be done.

Steve
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-15-2003, 08:22 AM:
 
Quote:
"AT powersupplys are still available from several OEM manufacturers as a lto of industrial equipment is still AT and ESA based"
_________________________________________________________________
Have not had a problem getting power supplys for AT's. I just go to either the local surplus shop, or the myrad of re-sale shops we have here and buy an entire older computer with at least a 250 watt supply in it. Install a new fan and then into the DTS. This saves the customer a ton of money over the totally rediclous 300.00 price from DTS. Oddly none of these older supplies I have installed has yet failed.......Could very well be the fans I use though.....

As for industrial equipment using AT style components go, they too are being obsoleted quickly. A good example is CNC machinery where in many instances an entire new controller must be fitted to a lathe or milling machine, as cards and components come available, or you have to scrounge through other CNC repair sites and techs. Here is a good example
of a widly used controler on CNC lathes such as are used in manufacturing parts for this industry........

http://www.qualitrol.com/html/refurbished.htm

Industrial or not.....nothing matters when semiconductors become obsolete, or the demand for equipment drops to below levels that can no longer justify the production of new units or any of the associated components in them.
BTW: these industrial CNC controlers cost the equivelent of a half dozen new DTS 6D's!
Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Carro (Member # 232) on 06-16-2003, 10:47 AM:
 
Okay, maybe I missed something. I have a DTS 6. Are these new machines BETTER than the 2 drawer? My unit has had all the chip upgrades. Never had a problem. Granted I'm a private screening room and it only gets used about once a week. So, when I ask is it better - I mean when it's all said and done will it SOUND better? Mine sounds great! But if the fidelity between these models are night and day I'll get a new unit. And will these new units play Jurassic Park discs and the like?
Thanks
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 06-16-2003, 12:57 PM:
 
IMHO the older DTS 6 units have much fuller dynamic range than more recent DTS units. The older DTS 6 contains one of the best D/A converters on the market. It is my choice particularly if you are using older speakers.

I don't believe the new system is generally available yet so comparisons will have to wait.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-16-2003, 01:18 PM:
 
Mike C. -
The new system is hard-drive based, meaning you load up the disks the first time you show the movie, the sound is then transferred in a matter of minutes to the hard drive and then you don't need the disks anymore. The harddrive also will include all the trailers.

The HD can hold up to 30 full soundtracks, according to the publicity. (Why is this, anyway? Can the one unit play sound simultaneously for multiple screens? If not, then why would it need more than 2 or 3 movies' worth of capacity?)
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-16-2003, 02:01 PM:
 
Imagine a 20 plex and on Thursday being able to go to a nearby dts hard drive based unit and load up the audio files, then pressing another button and shooting them across the network. Imediately no matter where the print was moved, every player would have the files. Very nice.

Mike, anyone who says that one dts unit has better sound than another is pulling your chain. At one point we had the dts6 and the dts6-d set up into one system and switched between them. Not one person could tell the difference.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-16-2003, 05:57 PM:
 
Brad,
Actually the DTS 6 is better built in so far as the analog section is concerned. Never compared sound quality between them though. The 6 has Jensen balanced output transformers whilst the 6D does not. The balanced configuration can be helpful in some installations.
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-16-2003, 06:08 PM:
 
Hmmm, never looked at it that close. You should do the A/B test though. So long as you have the output levels set at exactly the same level, they will sound identical.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-16-2003, 08:00 PM:
 
Its pretty amazing that they do sound identical and that certainly speaks for the qwuality of those Jensen transformers they used. Next time you inside one take a look in the left rear corner.... there is a PCB with six Jensens mounted on it.
Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-16-2003, 08:38 PM:
 
I will certainly do that Mark. However I've only got a couple of those left in my service, so I don't know when the time to crack the cover on one will turn up again. Most theaters I service got sick of the defective disc issues over the last year or two and opted to do an upgrade to Dolby Digital. At least now that dts is shipping in the good thick cases again I haven't heard of another damaged disc since the switch.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-16-2003, 09:59 PM:
 

quote:

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the sound is then transferred in a matter of minutes to the hard drive

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quote:

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Actually, the unit is supposed to read only the first reel in about 30 seconds the first time you put the discs in and then be ready for playback while the other reels are loaded in the background.

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