Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Phonic PAA2 analyzer -- Opinions?

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-10-2003, 09:42 AM:

A guy I know showed me the ads for this real-time analyzer:

www.phonic.com

He says it's the new "hot thing" and it's getting good reviews. I hear that one was sent to Skywalker Sound and the guys at Uncle George's house said good things about it.

I'm rather intrigued by it. It would be a good thing for me to use because I would use it for more than just EQ-ing movie theaters and A-Chaining projectors. I'm in charge of the sound systems for three venues at Mercyhurst. We often have only 10 minutes to check out the room before the house is opened to customers. It looks like this would be a good alternative to setting up the Ivie and the MUX box that I used to use at Cinemark. It is said that you can hold this in your hand and walk around the room, taking samples in several places as you go. Then the unit will average out the data from your samples and give you a readout that tells you where you have to make adjustments to get to "flat".

The Ivie that I used to use costs a couple thousand dollars. This thing lists for $450. It's almost too good to be true, if you ask me. What do y'all think?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-10-2003, 10:00 AM:

Looks interesting but the single mic attached limits it compared to a multimic setup

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-10-2003, 10:45 AM:

Right after I posted the question I went to the site myself and downloaded the user's manual for the thing. According to that document, it has two XLR ports on the bottom. One is for input and the other is for output. (Is has a built-in pink noise/tone generator. Everything on my systems has XLRs. I don't see a problem with getting (or making) a "pigtail" adaptor to go to/from other types of inputs when I need them. Do you?

The attached mic would be a feature that I would use. I often have only a few minutes to quickly check out a room before we let customers in. I imagine that I could take three or four samples from different places to get an average reading then make some adjustments, resample and be ready to roll.

On the other hand, using a 4-mic MUX box would be better. Again, with the input on the bottom of the unit, I don't imagine that hooking it up would be a problem unless there are issues with going to/from balanced/unbalanced lines.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-10-2003, 11:18 AM:

You could do the same thing plug the Ivie mic right in the top of it and walk around doing an average also the Goldline DSP30 does the same

The big concern would be the acruaccy and Q of the filters used

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-10-2003, 12:09 PM:

Agreed on that one. Usefulness and ease/difficulty of operation are one thing. Accuracy is another.

For 90% of the things I would do I don't think I would need an analyzer to be "dead nuts" accurate but certainly "three nines" would be the least I would accept.

Posted by Barry Hans (Member # 477) on 06-10-2003, 12:14 PM:

I have been intrigued by this analyzer for a while http://www.terrasonde.com/atb_plus.htm Seems to be along the same lines as the Phonic brand. Do you know the price of the PAA2?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-10-2003, 01:22 PM:

Phonic PAA2 = $450 (USA) Mfg. List.
Street price may be lower, depending on discounts ,etc.
Expect to pay in the low $400 range.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 06-10-2003, 09:41 PM:

Randy,
I'm just curious? Why would you have to make adjustments to a room before people come in? You said that you could walk around the room before people came in with the unit and see which adjustments had to make it "flat". The "empty" room would always be the same, so why would you make adjustments?

Rick

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-10-2003, 10:29 PM:

Oops! Lack of commnication on my part!

At Mercyhurst, we don't do just movies. We host lectures, plays, dance recitals, classical concerts, bands and other stuff.

I'm thinking about a situation like a concert where we have to rent a sound system. There is a sound system in the auditorium but it's only for public address and the cinema sound. When we hire a band or other event that needs a full range sound setup we often have only a short time to get the whole ball of wax up and running. We have to patch, focus and program the lighting system. We have to set up the risers and sets for the stage. We have to load-in the band. On top of that we have to get the sound system working right. We'll often start load-in at noon for a show at 7:00 PM. If we had a union crew with a dozen deck hands that'd be a piece of cake. We don't. We use Work Study students for deck hands. The don't know stage work very well, sometimes and for minimum wages, we're not likely to attract professionals.

We usually have sound check at 5:00 PM. That lasts for an hour, more or less. After that, we have to make all of our final tweeks. It's not unusual to be working right up until the house opens. We may only have 30 minutes if we're lucky.

The way I understand this thing to work, you plug the XLR output into your sound system and turn on the pink noise generator. Then you walk around the room and take 30 second samples at up to 10 places in the room. When you are done the device will average them all together and give you a readout that tells you where you have to make adjustments. Like this:

(Clipped this image from the downloadable manual.)

I imagine that doing this would be much quicker and simpler than getting out the whole kit and kaboodle of the RTA, setting up the mic(s) and hooking up a separate PN Generator.

I've been hunting the internet looking for reviews on it and they all say virtually the same thing... "Great features!... Great Price!" There is some mention about it being "super accurate" but there is no quantification of what "super accurate" means and there are no comparison tests against other known brands of equipment.

I'd take just one review that says, "We had a shoot-out between this RTA and 'Brand X'." Even if the results said the thing was even "almost as good" I'd seriously consider it.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-11-2003, 01:46 AM:

Can it display the X curve for reference?

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 06-11-2003, 06:39 AM:

Randy,

Most reputable companies will allow you to determine if the instrument is "suitable for your use" by allowing you to return it for a refund after a few days of trial period.

Ask the manufacturer if you can purchase it with a guarantee the you can return it in (?) days if it does not do what you need.