Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: blotches in whale rider?

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 06-20-2003, 05:19 AM:

anyone else have a print of whale rider with odd blotches in it? i think they were only in r2, ranging from 1/4 to 1 frame long, too bulbous and black to be scratches, and yet still quite thin, with a vertical orientation. it didn't look like normal dirt. if anything it looked like maybe tiny droplets of paint that were deposited as the film was being wound at high speed, which stretched out. there weren't super many of them, annoying but probably not enough to justify a replacement reel. hell, we never get replacement reels. any thoughts?

carl

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-20-2003, 06:58 AM:

Dark, grayish "blotches" found on only one reel could be from accidental soundtrack developer splashing into the picture area, leaving deposits of silver. Usually soundtrack developer bleeding and blotches tend to be along the left hand side of the projected image, near the analog soundtrack.

Here is information on how the analog soundtrack is "redeveloped" to produce silver in the soundtrack required for tungsten "white light" readers:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h249/h2409_05.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h249/h2409_05.shtml#187753

Although affecting only a small percentage of reels, these soundtrack application problems are a significant source of waste and makeovers for the labs.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/dyetrack.shtml

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 06-20-2003, 12:39 PM:

Dear Carl.
We have only just finished a season of Whale Rider and there were no marks as you described on our print.
However we did note that the light on the image was not even, the centre was ok, but illumination fell off to the sides, especially the corners. Subsequently it appeared the mirror focus was incorrect.
I checked the mirror focus and it was correct with even light over the entire screen, also the effect occured in all our theatres, so obviously a printing fault.
Did you or any other colleagues note this on their prints of "Whale Rider"?
Regards. John Spooner.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-20-2003, 12:44 PM:

It would be unusual for a lab printing problem to produce DARKER edges on a print. Typically, if the light in the printing aperture falls off at the edges, the edges of the print film receive less exposure, and would be LIGHTER.

One possibility is vignetting in the camera lens, which can produce darker edges or even a shadow at the edge of the frame. Did the dark edges vary from scene-to-scene?

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 06-20-2003, 02:29 PM:

Dear John.
The uneven effect was consistent for long lengths of time and irrespective of scene changes. At other times the illumination was quite even.
Could be described as if the mirror were too far forward in the lamphouse, causing vignetting at the aperture edges.
Trust Teeny Weeny is well. Lady is here in front of the heater with me, she grunted and sends her regards.
John Spooner.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 06-21-2003, 04:38 AM:

i would say the blotches were more towards the middle of the frame, but still spread out. i'd have to check again to confirm. as for illumination, it seemed even on our print. however i was thrown for a loop by 2 shots in r1 (as paikia & grandfather approach the house on bike) where a foreign object intrudes into the right side of the frame. evidently it's a sun visor or something on the lens that, surprise surprise, didn't turn up on the video "rushes".

carl

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-23-2003, 07:39 AM:

Almost all cinematographers prefer film dailies to the cheaper video dailies --- too easy to miss a problem like being slightly off in focus.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 06-24-2003, 04:16 AM:

I was wondering what those splotches on one of my "Bruce Almighty" prints was. It sounds very similar to the ones you are describing on your print of "Whale Rider". It only seems to affect one reel of the print. Good to know.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 06-29-2003, 11:47 AM:

The Princeton Garden Theatre picked up Whale Rider last week (suburban NY break). Their print is fresh from the lab and has a small blotch in R1 but otherwise nothing really annoying.

Carl M: Get a replacement R2. Arthouses deserve a presentable print as much as mainstream theaters.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 06-30-2003, 01:42 AM:

my boss requested that the distributor see if they had any spares, haven't heard anything since. if we do get it switched out, which seems unlikely at this point, i'll try and take a pic of the problem to post here.

carl