Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Simplex Millenium

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-26-2003, 11:42 PM:

What do you think about the Simplex Millenium II projection systems and Highlight II consoles from an operation and maintenance point of view?

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-26-2003, 11:53 PM:

I personally like the millenium head. I found it very easy to work with and easy to keep clean. The only two negatives are the gate design and the sound head design,

I do not like the design of the film gate because it uses a pin to lock it into place. This pin has been known to pop out during the show if a poorly made splice passes through the gate.

I do not like the soundhead because it uses the rubber dampening roller that makes contact with the picture area of the film. You must make sure to keep this very clean or you will damage prints.

overall I really like this projector and would reccomend it.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-27-2003, 12:05 AM:

Instead of a rubber dampening roller which touches the surface of the image, are there also rubber rings available which only touch the film on the edges?

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 06-27-2003, 02:41 AM:

I have installed over 200 of these machines in the last couple of years, only problem I had was the intermittent locking up maybe about 5 out of 200...not bad odds...when I do an install I run the lamp & projector for 100 hours, if anything going to happen it will do it within the 1st 25 hours...Strong has gotten their oil leaks down to almost none !! The machine is great, easy to repair & to maintain...we use the high rect. rectifier instead of the switcher, I found the switcher rectifer is not reliable as the high reactance...The console is easy to troubleshoot & has a great even light output...I have no problem with this console or projector...The cooling fans are noisy, but other than that they are great !! Strong service support & techs are the best in the business as far as I am concern !!!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-27-2003, 04:19 AM:

My own observations and opinions here. Your mileage may vary...

I am not a big fan of the Simplex. Never have been. It is built like a tank and will certainly run for a nice long time without breaking down, but I don't like the way they handle the film. Two identical films ran side by side by the same projectionists in the same booth, one on a Simplex and one on a Century...the Century print will look better at the end of the run every time. A Century projector (made by the same company as the Simplex, Strong International) handles film much more gentle. Even more gentle film handling than a Century would go to a Cinemeccanica projector and possibly a Kinoton (I need to play with a Kinoton before I claim that it is better). If you choose to go with a Strong projector, I would recommend you go with the Century or check out the Apogee which is about to be released. From what I saw the Apogee seems to have all of the positive points of a Simplex and doesn't have that stupid pressure roller in the soundhead which does a lovely job of pressing in loose dirt into the emulsion.

Not a big fan of Strong lamphouses either. They have a hot spot that drives me nuts. The Highlight II is better by leaps and bounds than the Highlight I, but that hot spot is still there. If you go with this unit, I would heed Don's advice and go with the high reactance power supplies if you are going to put in a 4K or larger lamp. I have also seen a lot of ignitor issues with the Highlight II units and boy are the cooling fans good and loud! You should check out the Christie SLC console instead. It is a superior lamphouse with a more even light output across the screen and their failure rate is damn near zero. Plus the xenon life out of an SLC is incredible compared to a Strong. If you do choose to go with a Strong lamphouse, I would go with their new model that should be on the streets soon. (They had it at ShoWest and is featured in the Strong video download.) It was designed with the service technician in mind (easily accessible parts/nice and roomy).

I also hate, hate, hate, hate, hate Strong's turret that you will find on a Simplex or a Century. After you have to readjust the stop settings a few times to keep your apertures lined up perfectly, you will hate, hate, hate, hate, hate it too. It needs to have allen wrench alignment controls like the Christie projector does on it's vertical alignment (or like Strong used to have on their older turrets), then I would like it. Every time they introduce a new turret, it has more problems with maintaining alignment. Hopefully someone will redesign it for the Apogee and make it available as a retrofit for Simplex and Century. That would be nice.

To answer your question about the rubber O rings, no that is not a possiblity on the Simplex.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-27-2003, 02:44 PM:

What Brad said (and with all respect to Don and Sean). [Smile]

Only, I would pay some consideration to Big Sky consoles as well.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2003, 04:55 PM:

OK, Thats a fair question.... If I had been Strong I woulda thrwown the Simplex out completely and come out with a whole new design for the new Millenium.

It would have at least these features:

All gear driven and all orthagonal gearing for longest life span. Large oil sump of at least a quart. At least two stages of oil filtering, plus magnetic filtering. Hardened(I mean really hardened correctly) star and cam, not the crap being made today. Also, the star and cam wouldn't need to be huge like the Ballantyne....it would just be designed correctly instead!

One piece machine with integral analog, DTS and SRD readers as standard. Film runners made from A7 tool steel hardened to at least RC65. Not the typical butter soft metal as is used in alot of todays runners and other wearing parts in U.S. built projectors.

I am 50/50 as to liking the Simplex. However, with Kinoton, Ernemann and other better projectors being in the same price range now and actually offering more for your money and a better product I would probably shy away from Simplex in the future.

My personal observations as I have installed quite a few of them:

I HATE the gate design.

There are WAY TOO MANY parts in a Simplex head. Those that have rebuilt lots of different types of heads would have to agree on that one. Even a complete DP-70 has about half the amount of parts that are in just a Simplex projector head!

The intermittent star and cam are not machined to tolerances nearly as good as the old machines were. Old Simplex's have a rock steady image, particuluarly the machines with the two piece cams. Newer machines that compare in steadiness to those older ones are by chance. While Ernamann and Kinoton are today still churnning out machines that are even better than the early Simplexs.

There is still not much oil in the mechanism, but the shaft seals have allowed for some increase. Since no one changes their oil as often as they should the "lack" of oil in a Simplex to me is a hindrance.

On the positive view side:
The leaks are almost non-existant now thanks to modern powder coating finishes sealing the castings, and the addition of seals on the main drive shaft. The newer style red gear door gasket is also a ten fold improvement. Later machines have the heavier gear door, and a alot heavier main casting. The later turretts are a tad bit better too and almost always work. As long as you change the oil frequently Simplex's will have a long trouble free life. Like Don S. says...if it makes it past 25 hours it'll last forever.

Brad,
It would be easily possible to make a lateral guide roller and sound drum for the 5 star that are non-contact. Copying the Phillips sound drum and lateral guide would be VERY easy to do. In fact I'm surprised that Strong has not made that improvement to the 5 star. That alone would be a huge improvement!! Its about all there is they can do to it anymore. I can only hope the Apogee does not utilize a tight loop scanner!!! THEY ARE CRAP AND TOTALLY UNNECESSARY!

Also.... The new single piece Simplex with integral sound reproducer does look nice. It rids the sound head of the drive belts and eliminates the two piece design that shoulda been thrown in the dumpster along time ago. Why on earth do we need two piece machines for any longer.......? All the worlds best projectors have long been one piece units [thumbsup]

Mark

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 06-27-2003, 05:20 PM:

Didn't Simplex introduce a long time ago an "XL II" projector that was an integrated projector/sound head? I heard it flopped though.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2003, 08:39 PM:

Yes, there was an XL-2. It dfinately was not desighned by Sam Kaplan though....more like Rube Goldberg!!
I had one once that I got from Charlie Wolk. It was a maze of belts and gearboxes to say the least. There is actually a service manual for the thing too. I seem to remember one pulley being very small pitch diameter and the belt having to be VERY tightly tensioned so it wouldn't ride up off the pulley teeth. Fittlingly it was made of all X-L size timming belts. There was a shutter compensator drive mechanism inside a gear box that actually used the worm gear that was on the shutter shaft of the Super Simplex!!

This machine is now in the collection of another FT member....if he'd come out of hiding and post some shopts of it that would be a nice benefit for all to see.
They engineers ar Christie would have an orgasm if they saw all the belts inside [Eek!]

.
Mark

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 06-27-2003, 08:44 PM:

I don't pretend to have the technical knowledge that many forum members have, but I know what I like, and what I don't. We purchased eight Milleniums and ten Highlight II consoles for our expansion. We are now three and a half years down the road from our reopening. This is what we've experienced.

Two power supply switchers have died so far. Getting replacements from Strong took so long we were forced to buy two spares to have on hand for the next failure (one 4K and one 2K). Now keep in mind that we are a thirteen screen independent. Unlike the chains, it costs $ to have these things sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Four of the eight Milleniums leak oil, so Strong finally has it's act together in this department? [Eek!]

And yes, I change out the oil every six months.

Three of the consoles have faulty LCD displays, which need to be replaced. Half of the display fails to function. In adition, several have faulty current adjustment potentiometers.

I have replaced one FP-350 Cue Detector and Failsafe, and just last week an entire CNA 100 automation board because the stop switch and the cue input switch stopped functioning. These two items ARE NOT repair/exchange items. We had to eat the entire cost.

Lens alignment? Lots of fun! Not a week goes by that I don't have to realign at least one lens on one of the eight Millenium turrets. (Vertical allignment)

Heaven forbid your hand should slip while cleaning the soundhead. Hit the little plug that powers the LED, and it will wiggle like a loose tooth, and if you are not careful, you will lose your analog sound. I've replaced two LED's already. From what I've read, these only last about five years anyway, so I've had some practice.

Two projectors have noisy intermittents, so I figure I'll be replacing them next.

Lastly, I had an unsteady picture early on in our biggest house. Spent hours on the phone with the folks at Strong. Replaced an intermittent, then a gate. You know what it turned out to be??? Vibrations from the cooling fan on the front of the console. I was about to replace that, and what do you know, when I took off the housing the vibrations stopped and the picture was steady again!!!

Another thing I've found. If we keep a print longer than three weeks, chances are better than good that the automation will start blowing cues and the cue tape has to be replaced. This is not a problem in the three old houses that have Kelmar automations. And speaking of Kelmar, we had two of our old Century SA's rebuilt with automated Kelmar turrets and traps. Rock steady picture and I have NEVER had to realign the lenses. The three remaining Century SA's(which were not rebuilt) are merrily rolling along and approaching thirty years of age with no major problems (of late). If I knew then what I know now... [Roll Eyes]

I was weaned on XL's and always thought they were terrific projectors, and I like Century SA's a lot, too. The newer Strong equipment leaves a lot to be desired, IMHO. Our owners think so,too. Not likely we will be purchasing from Strong anytime soon.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-27-2003, 09:19 PM:

"Four of the eight Milleniums leak oil, so Strong finally has it's act together in this department? And yes, I change out the oil every six months."
_________________________________________________________________

John, I would go after your dealer and see why the leaks have not been taken care of...... If you work for a large chain....ohhhhhh wellllll.........

I've never felt that the little amount of oil in an X-L should go as long as six months, especially on older machines where there is even less oil. If it were a pint it might last that long, but the 6 to 8 ounces of oil in a Simplex should be changed monthly if running on platters.

We recently had the oil that Strong sells analyzed and the report cam back as it being pure mineral oil with no additives what so ever. Perhaps the folks at the oil labs where we sent it were wrong, but IMHO thats not what I would use in any projector. The little oil in the machine would break down and become contaminated long before the six months was up [Eek!]

!!
Remember there is no real "FILTER" in the Simplex. That little screen thingy on the pump is no more than a strainer that keeps large particles from getting sucked up and sent though the mechanism.

I see way more intermittents in general come in for overhaul and or total rebuild than I did say 6 or 7 years ago. The quality of parts seems to be declining and I once had a number of stars, cams, and film runners of various manufacturers tested for hardness and the results I saw were less than pleasing. Sort of hardened to barely hardened would be about what I saw. While testing parts from some European machines gave much higher hardness test results. The noise in yours could be caused by various problems, but typically I am seeing cam pins that just do not last like the old ones did. Take apart a year old machine and usually you will find flat spots where the pin strikes the slot in the star. I've torn down a couple of dozen DP-70 intermittents lately to give them a cleaning, and the cam pins typically look like brand new....so do the slots in the star!!

We have not experienced switcher failure very much out here and I've gotten great lamp life from them. Again, having difficulites in geting relpacement switchers usually lies with your dealer....whoever he is [eyes]

.
Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-27-2003, 09:46 PM:

I don't understand the problem with getting switchers exchanged. Strong will cross ship, and usually gets one out the same day. If you want to pay for fast delivery, you should have a replacement the day after ordering.
The Millenium really shouldn't leak oil. Something is wrong if it does. I've had a few with funky castings on the sprocket assemblies that needed some help to not seep, and one that really liked to drip from the intermittent eccentric to casting seal (eliminating the drain holes was a bit optimistic) but most are quite dry. Not dry like a DP70 but very dry for a Simplex.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-28-2003, 12:49 AM:

I would like to add that I like the Highlight II console. I find it very easy to fet a good focus on the lamp and it is very easy to work with. The power supplies have had problems in the past. I personally would not go with a switcher as I have had them catch on fire on me. I would go with the High Reactance Rectifier if you can. The only other issues I have seen are the igniters. It is very easy to replace the igniter yourself if it goes bad on you one theatre I worked for in down town Boston kept a couple spare igniters on hand. Also the reflectors are expensive they have the di something or other coating on them if you damage one expect to pay upwards of $700 for a replacement. If I was openening a theatre I would probably choose the Christie SLC lamphouse but the Strong would be a very close second.

Tim,

The only experience Ive had with Big Sky equipment was there platters and I did not like them very much at all.

Also,

I agree with Brad the lens turret is not that great. When you lose the elctromagnet sensor thing your turret will keep spinning back and forth because it cannot find the stop point. Its actually pretty funny to watch! [Smile]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-28-2003, 03:43 AM:

Brad:

Thanks for your comment about the hotspots in the Strong lamphouses. I have an Ultra 80 that's been driving me nuts ever since I got it...

Sorry to hear I'm not the only one, but glad that it's not me!

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 06-28-2003, 09:51 AM:

When I worked at the Regal Royal Palm, I was there right after the installation of all those Simplex Milleniums! Now keep in mind, these are all brand new machines...

What I liked: Very roomy projector head with lots of space to thread. This also made cleaning really easy. I also liked the big upper feed sprocket. For some reason, it felt more "reassuring" than the small ones on the Century. Speaking of the Century, I like the fact that the Simplex had a large opening for the film to go through at the top, unlike the Century. With Centuries, since the opening is so small, if you mount a film cleaner on top you have to start adjusting rollers so the film feeds into the hole right. (yeah, yeah... not if you do it this way or that way, I know...) I think I'm in the minority when I say I LIKED the fact that the lens turret changed slowly. Ours always seemed to be in time perfect with the masking curtains. (SCOPE lens would "click" into place right when the curtains were fully extended) This probably saved the lenses from the "jolts" other, faster turrets cause. I liked the design of the sound drum, too, except for that rubbery thing. [Smile]

Now the bad stuff: Just like everyone else said, the gate sucks. In Florida, (especially the south) if the air is off for any period of time, things get damp. We came in one morning to find that the gates on a couple of projectors wouldn't open. Lo and behold, the little pin had RUSTED into the hole!! Well, at least we know how to keep it shut during a show... [Roll Eyes]

The oil leaks were a huge problem at first, but were pretty much solved by the time I left that location. The worst was when oil would leak onto the flywheel and spray up onto the port glass, causing the picture to "go out of focus."
Lens turrets also had problems, but only two or three in the whole complex. Either they would mis-align, go back and forth like Sean said, or just keep spinning round and round.

Now the thing that I absolutely HATED WITH A PASSION about those machines was that stupid little "ring" held in by a hex screw that would serve as the intermittent shoe tension/position. These would work their way loose every few weeks and either cause there to be a huge gap between the sprocket and shoes, or it flips around so the shoes are GRINDING against the film and snowflakes fill the projector head. What was even a bigger problem is that the projectionists would get so frustrated with these things that they would tighten them down so hard to the point of snapping the hex screw off in the shaft. Strong had a replacement for this whole mess shortly before I left.

I worked with the Hihlight II consoles at another theater. I absolutely hate these things. Good light output, easy to maintain, yadda yadda... but the simple fact that it sounded like 8 air-raid sirens in the damn booth made me lose all respect for these. [Mad]

Those huge, loud fans were PERFECT for sucking in dust, film, and small animals, too.

Overall, a good projector and I'm somewhat partial to it since I learned on one. (Very easy for a newbie!) But like all things, it has its little flaws. I would purchase one unless there was a Kinoton of comporable price.

=TMP=

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-28-2003, 10:33 AM:

Question on these projectors: should the gates be left open or closed at the end of the night? With Centurys and X-Ls, the springs seem to wear out faster if the gates are left open, so I've always left the gates closed and (with Simplex or RCA soundheads) the sound rollers open.

I've only run a couple of shows on Simplex Milleniums (Millenia?), so I can't really comment in detail. They seem like decent machines and are essentially a turret version of the X-L with a redesigned gate and separate intermittent shoe. The pair that I have run has manual turrets which work fine. They didn't leak, either (they would have been installed about five years ago, I think). Agreed to all the complaints about the 5-Star soundheads. The Century design (C, SA, JJ) seems to be much more operator friendly, but both machines can put out a decent image and will run well for decades. I've never seen a turret-model Century, but apparently the current version uses the same turret as the Simplex model.

I generally like the Highlight II console. It's huge and noisy, but the Christie SLC is even bigger (why?). The light output is very good with 2kw bulbs and we get great lamp life at the 6-plex where I work that uses them (they were installed about six years ago). Bulb changes are easy and fast and the lamphouse is very roomy inside. My only real complaint is that (like the Super Lume-X), the alignment controls are designed to make fine adjustments difficult. I much prefer the screw-type adjustments on Christie or Cinemeccanica lamphouses. Cleaning out that fan intake thing is an annoying chore, but that's a once-a-year activity and isn't really a big deal.

If I were a theatre owner, I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of this equipment. It's well designed and will last for decades and it also has the advantage that many operators are already familiar with it (at least in the US, where Century and Simplex are by far the most popular machines).

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-28-2003, 12:06 PM:

On the single lens xl's and centurys I take the trap door out at night and then close the mechanism that way the closure spring stays relaxed overnight as does the tension spring

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 06-28-2003, 12:22 PM:

Gentlemens,

Personally I like simplex mechanisms, they are easy to service, but it got a lot of improvements that make impossible to know really witch part should be ordened. More, simplex mechanism have an oil leak that atract dirt and dust. the sound presure pad where is in contact with the film is a bad idea and a hard deal for the projectionist who need to clean them after each show.
I dislike the Highlight console. I got 6 o them in a multiplex and is impossible to achieve a good light output on screen. In scope format the corners apears alway dark [Frown]

The ceramic fork who suport the xenon lamp give me a lot of troubles..
I rather prefer the Super Highlight 2: It's prettty fair to adjust the xenon, the light output is great an the mechanism look like the super 80 lamphouse. But Strong will no more in the future making this console [Frown]

(again)
Someone of You told me that se techical support is great [Embarrassed]

Sorry gentlemens, I suppose that in US the service is fine, but in Europe and in Switzerland is a nightmare...
I've ordened spares parts to my local dealer two monts ago and he told me that Strong din't send nothing...

For all this reasons my company has switched to Cinemeccanica...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2003, 01:31 PM:

Most of the Simplexes I sell and service are the PR-1014 single lens systems.

We do have a few Milleniums and a few PR-1060s out there though.

I have no problem with the mechanism proper.

For the Mellinium, the gate closer, is the ORC contraption they came up with for the Century, whilst it was on ORC's watch. I never liked it there and I still am not a fan of it. The gate runners and trap bands still do the job though.

The intermittent shoe again is from the Century and turned upside down...if I wanted a Century, I'd have ordred a Century..I like the fact that the Simplex has the intermittent shoe attached to the gate. If I wanted it separate, I would have taken more of the Christie P-35 approach on how it closed and I would have stuck with the Simplex shoe design. Though there are certainly flaws in the PR-1060 gate design (don't close the turret on the opened gate)...I can get them dialed in to near perfection so I actually like them.

I don't like how the dynamics changed when the upper sprocket moved up and the loss of the upper film-stripper.

I note that Strong has addressed both of the above issues with the Apogee.

I don't like lens turrets and general and have found none in particular that I like. All seem to have some merits and some failures. I can't argue that for the typical 2-lens FLAT/SCOPE theatre that they make sense. I'll take a Strong turret as much as any but to expect them to hold position over any length of time is wishful.

Oil seeps never really bothered me so all the whining about leaky projectors fall on deaf ears for me. I'd gladly take the seal off the intermittent cam in order to loose the "brake" style framing knob...it is too damn tight. Then again, you all got what you want.

One one gets the main drive seal right...the rest of the oil issues are just seeps, not streams of oil...it just isn't an issue, for me at least.

As to the soundhead...I like the Simplex "4-star" soundheads from SH-1000 onwards though prefer the SH-1007 and up. I agree the rubber roller thing is long overdue for a change...rework the drum pinch roller to the edge of the film is the contact area and things would be wonderful...even on the 5-star. I like gears over belts and again Strong has addressed that with the Apogee

Overall, the Mellenium is a fine projector that can provide decades of good service life and excellent presentations. I would not hesitate putting yet more in.

I think Strong has done an EXCELLENT job of listening to its customers with the work on the Apogee. At a time when film's future is in question Strong has come up with a new machine that seems to take the best from what the industry has to offer. I applaud their efforts...if they come out with a single lens version, I'll be even happier!

As to other manufacturers...EVERYONE has their ups and downs...no one has a lock on good (or bad) mechanisms. I would put a Simplex up there with the best and Mark...only a fool would put in an Ernemann over a Simplex or just about any other projector...now THAT is a piece of expensive junk.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-28-2003, 04:43 PM:

Steve,
While I didn't install the Ernemanns here and I couldn't tell you who did, there are close to 20 of them in service, plus Sundance owns a number of them set up for portable use that give them no trouble at all. We have so little trouble with any of them that I didn't even know there were any here till I visited the sites that had them on routine service calls over the last year. Some have been in service for close to nine years now, and they have yet to comsume any more than one new set of gate bands and a set of belts per machine. Thats REALLY good service IMHO, and they are dead steady as well. I believe Gord has also had very good luck with them. To me the downsides are the turrett and the dead idler sprocket. Thats all I can thnk of. They don't eat up belts, they don't leak, they run VERY clean with no visible film dust after many runs of a print, and I rarely hear from their owners about them, except for oil they order. The Egyptian Theatre in Ogden, UT has a 16/35 Ernemann that given them zero trouble over a 6 year period of running old and classic films,in both 16 and 35mm formats.... plus spill over from Sundance.

Interestingly, in Logan UT there are 8 Ernemanns, 8 DP-70, and about 24 other types of projectors, but mainly Simplex. We never hear from the Ernemann or DP-70 houses in general and I can't recall a projector problem in either 8 plex with the german machines. The calls we get from those locations are always sound, automation, or lamphouse related.

quote:
"only a fool would put in an Ernemann over a Simplex or just about any other projector...now THAT is a piece of expensive junk."

As for your child like comments, [Eek!]

. I thought you were above that....perhaps not, or perhaps you just don't have many of them running around your area to make a good judgement call on them...... If you do and you've had bad luck with them, then I can understand and weigh your opinion in next time someone out here is interested in them. At this point though your opinion isn't going to weigh much as the Ernemanns in this area are ALOT less grief from a service aspect than most of the Simplex's, Centurys, and certainly Christies.... BTW: the Ernemann is also priced in there with the Simplex Milennium and the Kinoton equivelents.
Mark

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 06-28-2003, 05:40 PM:

I generally also like the Milleniums ... I like the seperate pad roller for the intermittent; without it, there's too much fussing to keep the film in the trap by itself... I like the rack-pinion aperture drive; it seem pretty solid ... agree that the full-width rubber sound roller should go; in fact, I feel there's too many didly little parts to that assembly ... I wish the gate would come out for cleaning... the rear cover for the sound flywheel always seems to be just a little to "short" and you have to move the flywheel back on the shaft a little to not scrape the inside..

Believe me, Mark ... Steve is being factual, not childish, about Ernemanns (at least the Ernemann 15.) He takes care of 11 for our chain, and I constantly deal with another 60 or so. None are over three years old.

At two locations in Florida (about 30 machines) there were many turret problems (aperture shadows) after the initial install. So I sent a different guy I know and trust (F.D.) to totally check, service and repair all turret problem, then to file apertures. In less than one year, more than half will no longer line up (aperture shadows again.) We simply can no longer afford to maintain that part of the projector. The aperture "S" spring design is a "not funny" joke; we change them constantly. Big Sky wisely has designed a replacement assembly (a rack-pinion design, I think.) You know that larger feed-holdback sprocket drive belt? We keep 5-6 on hand at all theaters because several will break without warning. Belt tensioners break often, there are weird vibrating harmonics (you can feel them with your hand resting on the casting) that mess up the SR-D reading. They have a 1/2" thick nylon "plate" on the top of the casting that you are supposed to screw your DTS; SDDS; reader bracket or film cleaner; roller arm etc. into. Well, the threads in it strip pretty easily; there's no hole through the casting, so you have to get the EXACT right bolt length. God, I have to stop now as I feel a really bad rant comming on.....

Although of course, I'm glad you have had good luck with them .....

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2003, 06:18 PM:

Mark, it isn't childish...the Ernemann is a hunk of junk...they do leak, their picture is mediocre, at best. The tension bands crumple up in less than a couple months time in a typical mall theatre. Aperture shadows are huge due to the velvet bands that start to unravel, leaving fuzz in the aperture (there better not be the slightest burr on them plates or the bands come a drifting in.

The belt design is a joke with an unsupported idler roller. There IS NO DOCUMENTATION on the guts of the projector so good luck working on them.

Ever priced out the stupid Dolby LED for when it fades...they are over $600 list (just for the LED on an aluminum plated with potting to prevent the LED leads from shorting out). Even discounted you are going to pay a fortune from them (Neumade or Big Sky).

Their analog sound is by "Laser"...what another piece of crap...poor light, undependable, and can't get a zero phase difference. And if you get it all right...wait a month and the front lens element might fall out.

So, when you need to change one out due to failure...the fine folks at Ernemann decided to use soft alumninum on the tubes and groove them so a special tool could adjust them...big problem the lens tubes are now burred and won't slide out anymore.

Lateral stability? Not too much...they went with some sort of glass blocks that are spring loaded (one set above and one set below the aperture)...don't think they wear? Think again...never seen a stable picture from any gate that uses this sort of lateral position (and I hope the Apogee looses its blocks as well prior to release).

Pad rollers? You betcha...and by virture of opening and closing them, the knobs that hold them on come unscrewed.

The Sprockets...registered by the....outboard screw....only the friction of the outboard screw are the feed sprockets held to their shaft...no indexing, no screw going though the shaft, nothing..screw loosens, sprocket free wheels.

The little hand dowser plate is nifty...unless you close it too far and it causes the shutter to crash into the frame.

The turret is such a joke that I can't believe they even offer it with the projector...what do they use to clamp the lenses in with? M2 screws?

Or how about the turrets that just stop mid rotation? They could stop because the lenses were adjusted to align to the screen thus causing the lens holder to "bonk" the stop switches. But that isn't even necessary...sometimes they just don't rotate all of the way.

Mark, a friend of mine wants to write a book called 1000 reasons not to buy an Ernemann.

If you like the Ernemann so much...I'll bet that John Walsh here will trade you even, Ernemann for Mellenium.

Could they be made to work much better? Sure, but what projector can't? As I have seen them...I wouldn't touch them with a 10-meter pole.

Steve

PS: If you DO have an exploded view of the gear box with part numbers, please post it in the manuals section...I'm sure the world would love to see it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-28-2003, 06:26 PM:

My experience with teh ernamann 15 has been pretty good
belts have not been an issue
the lasers were in the beginning
The bands last about a year
the image is rock stable
Almost all are in grind theatres and they just run

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 06-29-2003, 09:45 AM:

"I've never felt that the little amount of oil in an X-L should go as long as six months, especially on older machines where there is even less oil. If it were a pint it might last that long, but the 6 to 8 ounces of oil in a Simplex should be changed monthly if running on platters"

Marc-
I have been told by our tech service that changing the oil on the Milleniums every six months is more that adequate. These machines were manufactured in the fall of 99 and put into service in February of 2000. Quite frankly, we didn't buy these projectors with the idea that I would have to change out the oil every month! That is entirely too labor intensive and after all, we are running a business. I do all the regular maintenance at the proper times. My post simply reported the problems I have experienced with the milleniums. We chose them based on our previous experiences with Strong equipment, which had been good.

Dave wrote:

"I don't understand the problem with getting switchers exchanged. Strong will cross ship, and usually gets one out the same day. If you want to pay for fast delivery, you should have a replacement the day after ordering."

Not so in my experience! The first time it happened we waited two days to get it with our dealer screaming at them. The second time was even worse, during the First Lord of the Rings, when the supply went out in one of our 4K houses. Called Strong, and they didn't even have them in stock!!! We said, "What about a 2-3K? We'll modify the collett and run a fresh 3K bulb flat out, since this was our second largest theater and it was dark during the holidays." Guess what?? No 2-3K's in stock either! Finally, they pulled one out of a show demo. Took three days to get it. I modified it and we got by with less than stellar light for nearly two weeks until we got the 4K replacement. During the three days that house was dark, we had to modify the schedule and bump prints all over the place. It casued a lot of greif, and we lost money, too.

"The Millenium really shouldn't leak oil. Something is wrong if it does."

No fooling! Of course they shouldn't, and, yes, something is wrong. We have to buy and install oil seal kits. That costs money, too. I have one on hand now, but I'll be damned if I'll order three more before I see if that solves the problem.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-29-2003, 11:37 AM:

John,
Assumming that your place is a grind house then.....

The big thng I see here is that IF you went six months before your very first time around, the machines are more than likely ruined. New projectors should have the oil changed at least several times the first month of operation....say 20 hours, then 60 hours, then at 100 hours and then every month after than in a grind operation. There are gobs of particles, metal, fibre, and others that are generated during break in. Its the mixing of these particles with the oil that causes the oil to break down. The more particles, the faster the oil heads south.

Take some of that 6 month old oil to a lab and get it analyzed!! After you get the results back you'll more than likely change it every month. If it were synthetic it would probably last those six months without breaking down, but it would also be full of metal particles, and very dirty due to the lack of a proper oil filter in the Simplex...remember....it is really not anything more than a simple strainer. If you have your machines properly set up for draining the oil out its a 15 min operation at best. Do one or two a day, keep a log and it'll just become part of yours, or whom ever operates the booth routine. Of course you're in buisness to make money and so on....well, however feeding in expensive parts to your machines is going to cost alot of money and its quite probable that frequent oil changes will prolong the life of the mechanism alot. Oil is cheaper than parts replacement, down time, and the labor for someone to come and do the repairs, especially cheap if you buy oil in 5 gallon cans. Also, if your X-L's were not set up for quick oil draining then you should complain to your dealer about that, or spend the 5 bucks per machine that it costs to buy the proper fittings for quick drain out.

As far as seals going bad, be sure that your belts are not rubbing and chafing on the sides of the projector drive pulley. If this happens there is alot of dusty like belt compound that is generated and this will destroy the seals in short time. When it mixes with the oil that starts seeping out it forms a nice cutting compound and also destroys the pulleys. It wears out the pulleys, seal, and the place on the pulley where the seal rides. It also works its way into the outer main drive bearing and then it too will fail...... I find this frequently in chains that don't perform normal P.M.. Proper alignment of the projector to the soundhead usually allows for the belt and film to run correctly. If you find that the belt is genrating black stuff then careful inspection of both of the projector drive pulleys for wear and possible replacement is in order, as well as replacement of all normal seal parts is in order. Keep an eye on them closely in the future and catch it before it gets bad. Also, don't just replace the seal. It will most likely never line up exactly where the original seal lip rode on the pulley shaft...ya have to replace the pulley too.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-29-2003, 02:03 PM:

I half agree with mark
When brand new the oil should be changed at 50-60 hours (in a grind house that is one week)
Then again at about 100 hours (two weeks)
then after that ever 1000 hours should be okay or every 2-3 months in a grind house
The original oil is a Texaco Capella SAE10 non detergent and it is a very robust oil and withstands high temperatures well

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-29-2003, 02:29 PM:

Mark, Steve, you are both right. The Ernemann used to be a pretty good machine, but in the last years the management has changed, they have become incorporated into a bigger concern, and since then, the quality control has plummeted.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-29-2003, 03:30 PM:

Michael,
I would asume then that the Ernamanns out here being about 10 years old on average were from what you would call "the old management".

Gord,
After 1000 hours the oil in an X-L would be pretty dirty!! The oil Strong sells today is not Texaco Capella as you mentioned, it is straight mineral oil, (not the kind from the drug store) of about 9 weight and is available in 55 gallon drums for on the very cheap side. There are also NO additives mixed in with it at all. I can't remember what its wax content was...will have to see if we kept the report or not. With Strong wanting 15.00 a quart now we will probably get a 55 gallon drum of something a bit higher quality and bottle it ourselves. I seem to remember that both Shell and Texaco no longer make Capella, or that they don't make it in the weight needed....... Again, I'd have to check again on that.
Mark

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-29-2003, 05:21 PM:

Also, they downcheaped the projectors a lot in an effort to compete with Kinoton, which is diminating the German market, by being far cheaper.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-29-2003, 05:37 PM:

Oh for the German Market...I'd take a Kinoton PK-60D, FP-30D or FP-50D over anything Ernemann ever thought of making...by nature, the FP-30D is more my style though.

Steve

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-29-2003, 05:49 PM:

You would feel very much at home in Germany then - we don`t use PK60D and FP50D at all. They are only for the American market. In Germany, expect to find exclusively the standalone projectors.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-29-2003, 06:21 PM:

With a last name like Guttag...would you expect me to feel at home any place other than Germany...except good ol USA? [Wink]

Steve

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 06-29-2003, 08:01 PM:

My company never had a problem with Strong shipping, we get most our stuff sent overnight & we have it the next day, Switcher, intermittents, ect...maybe it is the dealers at fault blaming it on Strong...I never ever had a problem with shipping in the states or oversea (Japan)...Christie shipping....don't get me started on them !!! Christie never ever has anything in stock, if they do, you caught them at the right time, most of the time Christie parts are back order...I once had Christie send (12) new platter for an installation in Japan & did not send the motor drive wheels, after 5-weeks of complaining & begging they sent the drive wheels 5-days before opening....Strong never did this !! Their parts supply is 99.5% in stock & shipped out as requested...as for as their techs, they are on the phone with you are or will return your call in a short time....try that with Christie...Good luck !! as for as the Christie console...I do like those...but that is it from Christie...I have no problem with the Strong turrent...strong igniters....well yea that could be improve...but for the last two years, they seem to be better...I haven't had to replace one yet & I have installed & service almost 100 consoles...maybe it just me & I got lucky...I still vote for a Strong booth...

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-30-2003, 05:17 AM:

Actually I once drove up to Christie in Cypress (south of LA) to pick up some urgently needed parts. Our dealer had checked that they had them in stock. When I arrived there, none of the parts were available...
OK, it is only 90 minutes drive from SD, still, we needed those parts!

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 06-30-2003, 08:46 PM:

Thomas,

Kinoton has machines that cost the same as the machines you mentioned.

Mark,

The techs who do Sundance do not agree with your assertion that they "give them no trouble at all". Unfortunate, as these machines have so few hours; they're only used a few weeks a year.

[ 07-01-2003, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Larry Shaw ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-01-2003, 10:40 PM:

Larry,
Some place burried on this site there was a posting from someone at Sundance raving about the Ernemanns. It was a year or two ago that that post was made. I've never actually heard a complaint in regards to any particuluar projector they use.
Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-02-2003, 01:15 PM:

Ballantyne sends you a Texaco MSDS data sheet if you request one for the Simplex projector oil, and I think they could be in some trouble if the oil isn't really what the MSDS says it is.
Maybe it is, in fact, pure mineral oil? Refrigeration oils are designed for 2 things mostly; they must be non-foaming and compatible with the refrigerant and seals. Maybe no additives are required. Ballantyne may have picked this particular oil because of a lack of additives?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-02-2003, 03:17 PM:

Dave,
Its not the mineral oil you get at the drug store. Texaco may indeed make the oil that Strong suppiles, but 15.00 a quart is way too high of price! The old labels thay have brought back are certainly fun, but not necessary.

Actually you should be able to get Synthetic oil for about half that price per quart at any industrial supply type place. In the U.S. you can get the correct synthetic oil through W.W.Grainger for about $9.00 a quart
Mark

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-04-2003, 10:58 AM:

My comments on the Millenium. Since it is what I learned on, I am somewhat partial to it. I like it better than the 1050 and 1060 because there is more room to thread. I like how they have opened up the top of the projector so that you don't have to slide the leader through that little tiny slot when threading. I also like the new gate design. Seems like there is now more room to thread between the gate and the trap when it is open. However, I do wish that the entire gate could come out for cleaning. It would make cleaning the trap much easier.

The Milleniums I've used are 3 and a half years old. There were 12 of them. About half leaked oil. Why is it one theater has constant leaks and another theater has no problems at all? This is the thing I hate most about Simplex.

I have also noticed that the picture could be a bit steadier. Give me an old XL any day. I have seen these in action, once, and they perform beautifully.

Regarding the stupid rubber roller thingy on the sound head: even if no replacement currently exists, wouldnt' it be possible for someone (either Strong or a third party) to make one?

The only other brand of projector I have used is Kinoton. Very gentle on the film and rock steady picture. If I were to open a brand new theater, I would probablly choose Kinoton as my projector.