Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Xenon struck with safety shell on

This is topic Xenon struck with safety shell on in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 07-01-2003, 10:43 PM:

Strong Highlight console

It happens once in awhile. A manager, while in the process of changing a xenon bulb, was interupted by a cell-page. He returned to the job, and forgot the one important step of removing the shell from an Osram 6000W/hs bulb.

As the smell became very evident shortly after the show started, and smoke began emminating from the lamphouse, he shut down the equipment.

When I got there, my first job was to remove the carbon-like plastic from the floor of the lamphouse and clean what I could from the reflector. I then changed the bulb.

My question is this; the removed bulb looks pretty much ok around the quartz area, but there are ugly blobs where the quartz meets the metal.

Does anyone know of a safe way of removing this plastic or have they junked a bulb?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 07-01-2003, 10:52 PM:

He was lucky it didnt blow right then and there! [Eek!]

Junk the bulb, the quartz will likely have been weakened at any point the plastic contacted it when hot. You might even get lucky and get your dealer to do a warranty return on it.

-Aaron

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-01-2003, 11:09 PM:

I don't see how melting plastic would "stress" the envelope....but it might comtaminate it somewhat. All it did was melt and run off. I would probably consult Osram on this one and see what they reccommend. It might be safe to remove the reflector and let it just burn off completely and then clean the envelope appropriately. I'd be curious to see what they say...?
Mark

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 07-01-2003, 11:21 PM:

I know of someone that ran a 2kw Osram for quite some time after doing the same thing to it. Apparently they had no problems with it.

Hopefully it's not the same person again. [Smile]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-01-2003, 11:22 PM:

what ever happened to double checking your work. When ever doing this type of work turn off the cell phone for 10 minutes. If you can't and are interupted double check your work.

I would probably scrap the bulb because even if you did take the suggestions given by osram there is no guarentee that the bulb will opperate as it should without possable explosion. better to loose just the bulb than it is to damage other parts of the lamphouse.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-01-2003, 11:43 PM:

Managers! Do we go and mess with their cash register paper rolls?

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 07-01-2003, 11:48 PM:

I agree 100%, Frank, but in this brave new world, it's the best we've got on site.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 07-02-2003, 01:14 AM:

I agree, double checking anything in the field, especially something as sensative as a bulb change is crutial but in defense of theatre managers, they have got their plates pretty full running the theatre. I mean, they aren't allowed to let staff do anything anymore short of sweep up popcorn because it violates some sort of company policy. If an emergency bulb change has to be done, it's quite often during the busiest part of the theatre's operational period. So why not call a technician you say? Well, I don't know what it's like in other theatre chains but the one I work for is expecting it's managers to try and cut costs where ever possible and calling a technician to come out and change a bulb is an expense that the big cheeses feel is not wisely spent due to the fact they can have managers do it and not pay them any extra. So between the lack of incentive because of increased responsibility and no increase in pay combined with a stressful job environment as it is, if one manager happens to make a mistake like this every once and a while, it's not the end of the world. They're only human right?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-02-2003, 02:22 AM:

With a 6000 watt lamp, I don't recommend this, but for what it's worth I have seen almost this EXACT same thing happen once before. It was an Osram bulb (but only a 2000 watt) in a Strong Highlight I console. Although it reeked of "burned plastic stench", amazingly the bulb still performed flawlessly and ran past warranty hours.

Being a 6K bulb, I would recommend to remove it and cut your losses.

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 07-02-2003, 02:23 AM:

Greg illustrates the point perfectly.

I have known the individual who made this mistake, for years. He is quite comptetent and capable of changing a bulb properly.

Had he not been distracted (by other essential operational issues) during the bulb-changing operation, this topic would not exist.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-02-2003, 03:03 AM:

What, are you supposed to take the plastic shell off?

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 07-02-2003, 03:47 AM:

Do not junk the bulb, junk the manager!

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-02-2003, 06:58 AM:

Rick wrote:

quote:
I have known the individual who made this mistake, for years. He is quite comptetent and capable of changing a bulb properly.

Had he not been distracted (by other essential operational issues) during the bulb-changing operation, this topic would not exist.

I was once fitting a regulator to a propane cylinder; I had hand-tightened it, but not put the spanner on it. I was distracted by a 'phone call, came back, forgot that I hadn't finshed the job, lit a match first as you are supposed to do, opened the cylinder valve, and had a metre-long flame coming out of the cylinder, and had to reach down through the flame to grab the cylinder valve, and turn it off. I won't be doing that again!

It's all too easy to do this sort of thing if you get distracted.

Posted by Michael Harlow (Member # 1353) on 07-02-2003, 07:15 AM:

OOPS! IMHO i would "ditch the bitch". Better safe than sorry

Posted by Dennis J. Losco (Member # 1374) on 07-02-2003, 11:29 AM:

Trust me there is stress in the quartz. A finger print alone can induce enough stress to cause an explosion. Molten plastic, worse yet.
Denny

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-02-2003, 12:40 PM:

I think the best bet is to send the bulb back to the manufacturer and have it analyzed to make sure it is safe to use. Any foreign object (such as finger prints, carbon deposites from plastic, etc.) should always be a cause for alarm.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-03-2003, 01:24 AM:

Greg- Many technicians won't change bulbs anyway because of liability issues.

Phillipe- that seems a bit harsh. If you take Rick's word for it the guy is perfectly competent; this was just one of those 'oops' situations. It happens to the best of us.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-03-2003, 01:53 AM:

Philippe,

Have you never made a mistake? Hopefully if you ever do make a mistake no one ever sais to "Junk You". [Smile]

------

I do not appreciate it when people jump all over managers. There are some good managers and some bad managers just as thier are good and bad projectionists. I do not think it is fair for proffesionals on this forum to constantly make offensive comments about managers. EVERY ONE makes mistakes and if it is part of this persons job to change lamps then its his job. Wether it should be or not is another issue but it is not this persons fault its the company that requires him to do this. I have no doubt in my mind that if a projectionist had done this the comment would have been made that "...oh he must of been distracted by a manager" I think ever theatre should have projectionists but you can run a theatre without a projectionist you cant run a theatre without a manager. Lets lay off the managers please! [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-03-2003, 03:16 AM:

Getting back to xenon bulbs, one of the first chiefs I worked for told of how his boss had left the 'condom' on an 8k bulb back in 1969. The resulting explosion blew the side panel off the lamphouse - quite a feat for a GK37 lamphouse, which are built like tanks - cracked the lens, the porthole glass and reduced the mirror virtually to powder. The innards of the lamphouse were basically a complete write-off. The cinema was in an area of North London with a large Irish community and many in the audience assumed that a terrorist attack had taken place!

Dave explained that the lamps in those days operated under much higher pressure and were far more likely to blow up than the ones in use now - in those days running lamps past their guaranteed hours was unheard of. But the moral of the story was to have two people double-checking a mission critical job if at all possible.

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 07-03-2003, 01:07 PM:

Dear Leo.
Concur re the strength of the GK lamphouses.
As a matter of interest, was the lamp a vertical or horizontal mount in the GK37 lamp? Back then I would assume vertical.
Best regards. John Spooner.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-03-2003, 02:09 PM:

He didn't say (or if he did, I've forgotten), but I would have thought vertical. Most of the GK lamphouses still around have been converted to horizontal, but there are still one or two verticals about.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-03-2003, 04:28 PM:

"I do not appreciate it when people jump all over managers. There are some good managers and some bad managers just as thier are good and bad projectionists. I do not think it is fair for proffesionals on this forum to constantly make offensive comments about managers. EVERY ONE makes mistakes and if it is part of this persons job to change lamps then its his job. Wether it should be or not is another issue but it is not this persons fault its the company that requires him to do this. I have no doubt in my mind that if a projectionist had done this the comment would have been made that "...oh he must of been distracted by a manager" I think ever theatre should have projectionists but you can run a theatre without a projectionist you cant run a theatre without a manager. Lets lay off the managers please! "

The bottom line if it is part of the job then you are responsible to do it right and that means if it is mission criticle then the cell phone should have been ignored
Bottom line he installed it wrong and was responsible and there fore what ever the company's policy comes into effect

As for theatres not running with managers I have know several that have 1 manager between multiple complexs and one projectionist at each
Also many a time I have had to open the theatre because the manager didn't show up [Smile]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-03-2003, 07:14 PM:

I agree Gordon that the cell phone probably should have been ignored. It comes down to a judgement call. Not everyone makes a correct judgement call all the time it comes down to bieng human. There are also other factors that we do not know does this person have a pregnant spouse? Does this person have a relative in the hospital? There may have been a very good reason for taking the call. Regardless a mistake was made it was a mistake that anyone could make I have never done it but I have made other mistakes its human. I think that there is just a tone of saying that he made the mistake because he was a manager when it should be he made the mistake because he is human.

No business could operate without someone in a management/supervisory roll. Of course you can open and operate without a manager present but you cant stay in business. Imagine a theatre with just a projectionist and floorstaff with no one in charge... no one to cash out the draws... no one to order the supplies... no one to do the payroll... I dont think that theatre would last more than a day without someone having to be in charge. [Smile]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-03-2003, 09:09 PM:

Not intended as an insult to managers but most theatres that seem to run smother are projectionist manager position not manager projectionist

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-03-2003, 10:38 PM:

Gordon,

I did not think that you were trying to be disrespectful at all. My origional comments were intended for other members. You brought up some very good points and I greatly respect your point of view. I have seen good and bad man-op situations, and good and bad manager and projectionist situations. I just do not like the implications that this person made this mistake because he was a manager... anyone could have done this. As a former Manager I take offense to it. It makes me think that people on here judge people on thier ability as an operator on wether or not they are a real projectionist or just a manager. [Smile]

Posted by Phillip Seib (Member # 1406) on 07-04-2003, 04:16 AM:

Why did he notice the shell on screen when he focused the reflecting mirror after install?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-04-2003, 08:21 AM:

quote:
Why did he notice the shell on screen when he focused the reflecting mirror after install?

The shell would have begun to melt, burn, and smell immediately.

quote:
As the smell became very evident shortly after the show started, and smoke began emminating from the lamphouse, he shut down the equipment.

This implies that the change was made on an emergency basis, perhaps between shows, with the lamp alignment intended "on the fly". A bad situation to begin with, turned into disaster by the cell phone distraction. [Frown]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-04-2003, 09:14 AM:

Sean--I don't think that anyone is dumping on managers here. It's a difficult job that few people can do well and not one that I would want to do personally (unless it also involved booking the films). The real issue is that it is unfair for the theatre owner to put the manager in a position where he has so many responsibilities that he cannot do everything properly. That sounds like what happened here.

I feel pretty strongly that no one should be expected to both manage a theatre and run the booth at the same time. That is just too much responsibility for one (probably underpaid) employee, and both customer service and presentation quality will likely suffer. If a manager wants to run the booth and has the skills and desire to do so properly, then he should do that on separate shifts when he has no regular management responsibility and can devote his full attention to presentation quality.

It sounds like a trashed 6kw xenon was the price that this company had to pay for expecting too much from one employee. At least only the bulb got damaged and no one got hurt.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-04-2003, 10:27 AM:

Whew! At least I'm not alone. I once did something similar to a 3K Osram. I was cleaning the lamphouse, and I figured I'd put the plastic shell on the bulb so I don't accidentally touch it. Well, for some reason when I was done cleaning I forgot to remove the shell. I wasn't present for the next show. They saved the bulb for me. I managed to pry off the plastic shell (it wasn't burnt too badly) and I saved it as a souvenir. From now on, I just make sure I'm extra careful to not touch the bulb; I leave the shell off. [Smile]