Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Did anybody get a "Nemo Focus loop"?

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Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 07-09-2003, 04:42 PM:

I'm just wondering if any of you got a hold of one of the 50 "Finding Nemo Focus Loops" that were sent out with Dolby Select Prints... Dolby Select Prints: All reels are graded "A" or "B", with stickers on each reel with pertinent lab information (there can be only minor positive or negative dirt for a "B" graded reel, nothing distracting), and all reels are within one point, plus or minus, from the approved color reference.

The "Loop" isn't really a loop, but it is pretty cool. The Pixar guys, wanting to go the extra mile, made an image, with a 1:85 framing border, and a Fresnel Focus Target in the center. It has "Bruce the Shark" in the top, right portion of the image, and Bruce smiles as the film rolls. There were two, attached to each other, that went in every can that had a Select Print.

We were hoping they would be played at least once before being taken home...

Anyway, anybody get one?

Yours, Ted

Ted Costas
Director
Distributor Services
Dolby Labs

Posted by Tim Turner (Member # 1109) on 07-09-2003, 04:58 PM:

Nope, nothing like that came with our prints here. But sounds interesting. That movie is hard to focus, the underwater scenes purposely are made to look fuzzy?

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 07-09-2003, 06:51 PM:

We're not running "Nemo"... but that's a great idea, Ted. My theatre runs a wide variety of prints from major releases to art films to repertory, in all the formats, and it would greatly speed up conversion times for our two-projector setup if all prints came with a focus/framing loop which was, say, printed on the head of the first reel.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-09-2003, 07:25 PM:

I remember getting something similar with Star Wars Ep 1. It had a non-standard test pattern and C-3PO announcing all of the different sound channels. Not sure, but I think that loop was DTS only.

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 07-09-2003, 09:51 PM:

Christopher
Wouldn't a loop of RP40 do the trick for you.
I use it alot when changing formats, works like a charm for me.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-10-2003, 06:05 AM:

...except that RP40 has the emulsion toward the lens, rather than toward the lamp, like on "normal" prints, so it's not terribly useful as a focus reference. At least this is true of older RP40 loops on B&W stock; the newer ones are on color stock (why?), but I've only seen one of these and don't remember the emulsion orientation.

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 07-10-2003, 07:45 AM:

Didn't get one with our print.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-10-2003, 10:38 AM:

that's why I flip the rp-40 around so that the emulsion is torwards the light source. I do this just for focusing issues.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 07-10-2003, 11:29 AM:

Hmm, I never even thought about the emulsion orientation on 35-PA. Regardless, each different stock (and to some degree, batch of stocks) has slightly different focus, and we all know that framing to the SMPTE standard doesn't work with all (most?) prints either. Sometimes even the aspect ratio is in question (not just with repertory prints... see thread on the new "Spellbound" documentary in FITA forum). Providing a loop with each print takes out all the guesswork; there would be a definite focus/framing/format reference. I suppose if the filmmakers wanted to get really fancy they could include reference level pink noise or tones on all digital/analog soundtracks, LAD girls and color charts for color temperature reference, etc.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-10-2003, 12:23 PM:

I have one! It was with the print that came to our theater in Galaxy 6 in Bonsall, CA.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-10-2003, 12:49 PM:

If you are getting SMPTE 35-PA (RP40) test films that need the emulsion to face the lens to read correctly, they were made WRONG, and should be returned. They are specified to have the SAME orientation as a 35mm release print, with the emulsion facing the lamp.

A few years ago, someone made poor copies of bonifide 35-PA by simply contact printing it.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-11-2003, 01:29 PM:

My 35PA (B&W) reads correctly although it will still differ from a release print not only because it's B&W but also because of aging, just like on a production where they shoot a roll of focus chart and the editors put 12' on each dailies roll. This will absolutely always differ in focus from the following footage which just processed overnight. I suppose months later the focus might agree but on dailies one must rack the chart to make the crew happy then rerack when the first shot comes up.

That said, I'm not sure what value a loop has which may or may not agree with the actual print.

Posted by Don E. Nelson (Member # 1049) on 07-11-2003, 02:09 PM:

....................you lucky, lucky guys, you get all the free goodies!!! My friend, Less Mature, the (feature film) bootlegger , didn't get a focus loop with his 35mm pirated copy of Nemo, [Wink]

He was rather upset, not too many perks in the boot business, I guess.

John P. this is just a joke, OK......

Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 07-11-2003, 07:19 PM:

Hooray! Somebody got one. Michael Schaffer, let the e-bay bidding war begin (ha, ha).

Michael, did it help in any way? Was it at least cool? Did it achieve the psyhcological goal of, "I'll try it out, and maybe, the theatre operator will take a little extra time to make sure the feature is presented correctly." If they don't already.

You didn't say anything about it, and feedback from the guys in the trenches is vital. Let me know what you think.

I wish you all flawless presentations.

Yours, Ted

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-11-2003, 10:08 PM:

quote:
That movie is hard to focus, the underwater scenes purposely are made to look fuzzy?

I was going to ask about that, too. We noticed it in the trailers, and it seemed to be the same on the release.

Did Pixar intentionally make the focus a little soft... or is it part of their process??

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 07-12-2003, 04:29 AM:

I had to deal with several customers (one of which claimed to be a projectionist at another theatre) who complained that I haden't focused Nemo properly. (They were wrong).

Anyway, I wen't up to check it out in DLP [dlp]

and it was pristine in comparison! Even the underwater scenes were not realy blurry. My brother, who had seen the film version, commented on theway back that Digital was better because he could see the scales on the fish.

In the sceene where Nigel (the pelican) drops Marlin and Dory off, there's a bouy (sp?? pronounced booo-ey). On it there is a sign.

On the film version it is difficult to make out the letters (but if one trys, the will be able to make out what it says)

On the DLP version it clearly reads "Treated Sewage"

I don't think Pixar did this on purpose. Their Pixarvision film process is incredible (check out the prints of "A Bug's Life"). I think this is another stupid quality control issue with the master all the prints were duplicated off of. If it is a conspiracy, however, I'm sure Disney is behind it. Pixar would never intentionaly try to make film look bad. They, like most production companies, want to ensure that the image looks as good as it can, regardless of the format its played back in.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-12-2003, 01:36 PM:

I last saw "Finding Nemo" at a theatre in Lake Placid, NY two weeks ago. The projected 35mm print was sharp, and I remember reading that "Treated Sewage" sign. I was sitting about 2 image heights away from the screen.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 07-12-2003, 02:15 PM:

John,

Off topic but I tried to email something to your kodak email address and it keeps bouncing back.

Lyle

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 07-12-2003, 04:10 PM:

I know we've talked about this before, but why don't the labs simply print some focus test on the tails of every reel?

<Cranky child mode> I still say; Someone should make a simplified image test film just showing 1:85 and 2:39 borders and simple focus chart, print that onto regular release stock and sell it cheap. Many theaters will not pay for any high-quality 35PA-type test film, so NO checking is being done. Better a poor tool for a job then no tool at all.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-12-2003, 06:24 PM:

The focus film was a complete success with our projectionists. They normally use loops made from the credits of old trailers. When they found the Nemo focus film (which I am told was in the can, rolled up just like a trailer), they immediately made a loop from it and used it on all screens.

quote:
Did it achieve the psyhcological goal of, "I'll try it out, and maybe, the theatre operator will take a little extra time to make sure the feature is presented correctly." If they don't already.

They did already, still, the focus loop was a great idea. It is exactly the right tool to have "in the trench" to make it a little easier and also way more effective and fun to use than an old trailer loop.

Our projectionists are always very impressed when they see my image test film, but also a bit overwhelmed by all the information on it.
Also, it would be way too expensive to equip all theatres with it.

So I think it would be a great idea to have more themed fun focus loops like this in the future.
Those projectionists who try to maintain quality presentation will be grateful for it. I can imagine they would start collecting and trading them as an additional motivation.
THX once made an Episode I test film with channel identification (I think in CP30`s voice).

The Nemo loop will not be for sale on e-bay! I will keep part of the trailer as a souvenir to a cool idea, the loop will go back to the theatre for them to keep and use it.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 07-12-2003, 06:36 PM:

quote:
So I think it would be a great idea to have more themed fun focus loops like this in the future.
Those projectionists who try to maintain quality presentation will be grateful for it. I can imagine they would start collecting and trading them as an additional motivation.

Yes please!

With sound tests and channel identifiers as well.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-12-2003, 08:15 PM:

For all the money the chains pour into policies etc. wouldn't it be great if they would shoot their own customized test roll and make such loops widely available in every booth? It could be done very cheaply...get someone with an optical printer type camera (Unit-I shuttle) capable of handling long-pitch film and shoot it directly on to ordinary print stock. Make up a negative chart and use appropriate filters and light so it turns out as a decent looking positive. The chart would have flat and scope aperture dimensions, a few focus / rez targets and the the chain's logo & slogan. Under that you'd say something snazzy like XYX Theatres Precision Alignment Film. It should also be designed for the less highly skilled booth workers to thread in frame and correctly oriented.

Not only would this be good for general frame, focus, and alignment checks but the idea would be that if once in a while the projectionist throws this loop on the screen with the audience present the patron would be bound to think, 'Wow, we've never seen anything like this over at the other (competitor's) theatre--the people over here really care about everything being precise.' If it was at AMC they'd think ah hah...that's what they mean by "Experience the difference."

Good for keeping presentation standards up AND good customer relations, too.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-12-2003, 08:25 PM:

If a chain ever did that, I would expect nothing less than a sound system test as well. For example...

Left channel - man constantly coughing
Center channel - patron loudly muching on popcorn
Right channel - patron talking during the movie, explaining to the idiot sitting next to them what just happened
Left surround channel - baby screaming at 130db
Right surround channel - cell phone ringing
Subwoofer - simulation of bleedover from the neighboring auditorium running an action movie

The test pattern on screen also needs to have a laser pointer dot dancing across it.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-12-2003, 08:28 PM:

I'm actually going to do this before year's end.

We're getting new policy trailers and I'm going to send along a test pattern for the animation company to render out onto film negative. The lab I use in L.A. will then loop-print it onto 1000' or 2000' rolls.

They've been loop-printing my special threading leaders since 1998.

Haha! I just read Brad's post. I love it!

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 07-12-2003, 09:13 PM:

Brad's idea sounds a lot like the new (relatively I think) AMC "Silence is Golden" trailer. I have only seen it recently because I don't usually go to AMC.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-12-2003, 10:12 PM:

quote:
Off topic but I tried to email something to your kodak email address and it keeps bouncing back.

The Kodak firewall and spam filter are pretty sensitive. For example, I can't send myself a copy of any note about my dog "Teenie Weenie". To be sure, my address is john.pytlak@kodak.com