This is topic Excessive Humidity in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by William Dickson (Member # 314) on 07-25-2003, 03:07 PM:
Currently the air conditioners in our booth are not working properly. This morning when I came in it was well over 80 degrees and I would guess the humidity to be above 80%. You could definitely feel the moisture in the air. Recently we have had two brain wraps where the film going into the control plate pulls the next piece of film into the control plate with it. We have Christie AW3s. Could this be caused by excessive humidity? The film does seem to feel a little sticky. Is there a way to check excessive humidity like there is to check low humidity by taping a piece of film on the wall? Also, does anyone know anything about California's law regarding comfortable work environment temps? It averages between 90 and 95 degrees in the booth for most of the day.
Thanks
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-25-2003, 03:15 PM:
Very high humidity can indeed make the film physically "sticky", and actually may generate static (more charge is generated when stuck together surfaces separate -- open a "Band-Aid" in the dark if you want to see static discharge). Moist film emulsion is also softer, and more likely to scratch or leave hardened deposits in the gate.
Hanging a short strip of print film in the air is a quick (but not very accurate) test of proper humidity. The strip of film should ideally have just a slight amount of "positive" curl, where it cups slightly with the emulsion side at the bottom of the "cup".
If the A/C is poor, consider the purchase of a dehumidifier to get the relative humidity down to the recommended range of 50 to 60 percent RH. Use an accurate digital humidity gauge, available at Radio Shack or Edmund Scientific for around $20 US.
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-25-2003, 03:18 PM:
quote:
open a "band aid" in the dark if you want to see static discharge
Other Mr. Wizard-style fun: Wintergreen LifeSavers spark when they break. You can see it in the dark, when you bite into them. Try it!
And CoffeeMate-brand creamer will explode if you throw some in the air and light it!
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-25-2003, 03:40 PM:
quote:
And CoffeeMate-brand creamer will explode if you throw some in the air and light it!
Airborne dust explosions have resulted in many deaths:
http://members.aol.com/powderfax/page003.htm
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5174.html
Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 07-25-2003, 07:20 PM:
Uh oh...I'd better vacuum under the bed.
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 07-25-2003, 07:39 PM:
quote:
Airborne dust explosions have resulted in many deaths:
It has something to do with what's in it, because other creamers won't burn -- only CoffeeMate.
Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-25-2003, 07:48 PM:
Actually it has to do with surface area and ignition point... a material that is "finely divided" like sawdust.
Baking flour, corn starch, are other "explosive" materials.
>>> Phil
Posted by Travis Hubrig (Member # 1745) on 07-26-2003, 12:24 AM:
SH**
No more smoking in the kitchen
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 07-26-2003, 07:24 AM:
quote:
And CoffeeMate-brand creamer will explode if you throw some in the air and light it!
So Tim, what other hobbies do you have?
quote:
Very high humidity can indeed make the film physically "sticky", and actually may generate static
John, how about static being generated in very dry rooms? Because the layers become harder and there is more friction?
Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 07-26-2003, 08:22 AM:
At last a thread my science knowledge is up to.
Try these -
Whacking a sugar cube with a hammer in the dark makes a pretty cool blue flash.
Wiring a pickled gerkins into mains electricity makes it glow.
- but don't sue me if you get electrocuted please.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-26-2003, 09:10 AM:
Very dry conditions lower the conductivity of the gelatin emulsion, since there is less moisture in it.
Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 07-26-2003, 12:05 PM:
90-95 degree temps. ar not good for electornic equipment either. You could be shortening the life of your sound equipment.
Try this: sometimes a surge or a quick power outage will cause the compressor to draw a lot of current, and trip the braker. Look for a triped braker. It will be halfway inbetween on and off. You must turn it off first, then turn it back on. My guess is that it will be a two or three gang braker. Often, there are also fuses in a box somewhere near the compressor unit, check those as well, but make sure the power is off to the compressor unit first!
If all else fails, tell your cheep-idiot boss he is about to have some very expensive equipment repair bills, in addition to fixing the A/C.
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-27-2003, 10:24 AM:
In our recording studio and in the network equipment room we keep A/C running 24/7 and bring the temp down to 65 degrees. It's even pretty cold for some human beings, but we don't give a rats butt about how comfortable they are, as long as the equipment is happy. We've even taken to putting up a sign saying, "STOP WHINING AND PUT ON A SWEATER."
Talk about high humidity, the "booth" in the park has no heat or humidity control at all except a fan that does nothing but move the dripping, moist hot air thru it. For the past number of weeks in NY, it has been raining day in and day out. So far, we haven't had any prints sticking so badly that it threatened to become really problematic, but for some reason the estar base print ran much more noisely than the acetate.
Frank
Posted by John T. Moon II (Member # 1694) on 07-27-2003, 12:55 PM:
It seems here in Las Vegas were it's dry most the time, being in the desert and all,we have had very humid conditions for the last week. During that time the booth has been "Sticky". I have noticed all 14 of my projectors have been wanting to double strike the lamps occasionally or even strike 4 to 6 times in a few cases. It's only when the humidity gets this high. This happens 1 or 2 times a year. What's up?
Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-28-2003, 07:01 PM:
I have also seen temperature and humidity affect the performance of xenon lamps, such as the number of strikes it takes to light the lamp. I can understand temperature, but how does relative humidity affect a sealed environment (the lamp) in such a manner?
Posted by John T. Moon II (Member # 1694) on 07-28-2003, 08:40 PM:
Perhaps it's not the lamp but the ignitor electronics itself that are affected by the moisture.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-28-2003, 10:11 PM:
I suspect the moisture is affecting the spark gap. Automobile ignition systems also tend to act more up on really damp or rainy days. It doesn't take much moisture to hijack high voltage, especially if the insulation is questionable.
Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 07-29-2003, 12:09 AM:
I'm all about the dehumidifiers....we have them everywhere (FL here, so out humidity is crazy) and it seems to help a lot. We have to empty them daily though. The humidity seems to effect the number of times the lamp is struck to light....I'm an writing major so I don't remember much about Chemistry to try and figure out how it effects it, only thing I can guess it that the moisture doesn't allow a solid spark...
The dampness has huge effects on my car's ignition system, but some sealant fixed that, but putting that inside a projector would probably not work too well.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-29-2003, 06:07 AM:
quote:
I'm an writing major so I don't remember much about Chemistry to try and figure out how it effects it, only thing I can guess it that the moisture doesn't allow a solid spark...
Water conducts electricity when there is even a minute amount of a conducting "contaminant" like salt, sweat, etc. to provide some mobile ions. So even if a wire or component is insulated, a layer of moisture is likely to conduct some high voltage.
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