This is topic How Easy Is It To Fix These Problems? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-14-2003, 01:43 PM:
 
Hey Everyone...

At The Globe, we have some issues with some of our equipment.

We have Xebex HiBeam II Lamphouses, Vic 8s, CineQ.A1 automations, Strong Alpha Platters, and Kodak Ektapro Slide Projectors.

Lets Start With Cinema 1. It is a 70mm capable cinema. The platter is on the operator's side. No problems here really. The curtain is the problem. If used, it will open and close over and over, so you have to turn the main breaker off at the front of the auditorium.

Cinema 2 is the nightmare cinema! The middle platter deck scrapes and won't turn at the right speed. Also, these rollers on the top of the tree of the platter will stay sticking up and will cause the show to be stopped. On the projector, the dowser won't open at the beginning of any shows, the lens will rotate to gor from scope to flat, but will keep going and end up on scope again. You'll also have to push the aperture in and this silver thing on top has to be pushed down, then pulled back up. The Kodak slide projector will show a slide then shoot it up and out onto the floor. The CineQ will also not beep to warn you its starting. It just starts!

Cinema 3 is fairly decent, except the CineQ has the same problem. It just starts without any warning. Also, that bar where the light is transported to the projector, ends sort of early, so Xenon light pours out.

I will take pictures of the theatre tomorrow night.

Thx!
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-14-2003, 04:13 PM:
 
Sounds like a Famous Players complex.

Could be the automation in #2 is not functioning. Call in your tech to fix it. I'm not that familar with the Alpha platters but they could need to be re-timed/calibrated.

You use curtains? Doesn't that get in the way of that precious slide pre-show?
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-14-2003, 04:34 PM:
 
It use to be a Famous Players before the mall locked them out for breaking the contract! All of Famous Players stuff was left. Everything! When Landmark opened it, we used up the rest of the drink cups, popcorn bags, and tickets !

The tech hasn't been in for a good couple of months, I've been told.

Also, we use to use curtains, but because of the technical difficulties, Bong decided to buy slide projectors, and now, that's what we use !

BTW, On the back of the lamphouses, it says they were manufactured in 1977. I wander if they came from another theatre, because we use to have Showman automations or something?
 

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Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 08-14-2003, 07:03 PM:
 
Hi Andrew...

the curtains opening then closing sound like a contact is being held closed, possibly in the automation. Have you tried removing any relays that control the curtains or disconecting the automation so that you have full manual control only. If the problem goes away then that's the problem.

In fact with all your problems I would try taking the automation out of the equation and seeing what results you get.

With regards the lens turret, that again could be an automation problem or a dirty, sticking, broken micro switch on the turret itself. You don't say what type of turret you have, is it the very early type where the apature plate was moved by an arm connected to a star wheel or is it a later type that is all motor controlled.

A first step is to determin if the equipment operates correctly when NOTHING else is connected to it.... and move on from there.

Can't suggest anything about the platter as I'm not familiar with it....

As for the beep to warn of show starts.... not familiar with the automation but can you possibly try moveing the beeper to another unit and seeing if it works there.

Check all relays etc are firmly pushed home and secure... try removing them and inserting them again. Check all fuses.... Watch what happens in one unit and see what happens in another, you're looking to see what relays activate etc.

Hope some of this helps.

Regards Ken.
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-14-2003, 10:26 PM:
 
Platter problem could be loose or worn deck bearings. Motor could need new brushes. Try timing the decks. If the motor is still too slow it may need replacement.
 

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Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 08-15-2003, 08:34 AM:
 
Hi Andrew,

The problem with the turret sounds like the lock up switch on the front of the turret is out of alignment. These turrets will be the older style with either a drive cam to move the aperature or a solenoid driven aperture changer. Either the cam is broken or the solenoids are burnt out.

I would suspect a burnt out change over coil for the dowser problem.

On the slide projector check the switch on the top of the unit that is set for the type of slide tray you are using. This switch should most likely be set on 80 (most likely you have an 80 slide capacity tray). If this is not set properly the slide projector will not advance properly, get stuck, jam, etc.

If you are having problems with the platter in #2 and the wrap detector is not functioning properly FOR THE TIME BEING you can bypass the input for the wrap detector. On the main screen there should be a selection for DISABLE INPUTS. In that menu you cna find a selection to disable the wrap detector. I suggest having someone look at this soon as I am not recommending to disable the input for a long period of time as you will have no protection if you have a film wrap in the middle of the show.

As far as the automation not beeping either the event was stripped from the script or the beeper itself has failed.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-15-2003, 08:43 AM:
 
It sounds like the slide projector needs to be cleaned and possibly oiled (there's a dark shutter that closes when the advance mechanism operates). A good camera store can either service the projector or direct you to someone who can. Also make sure that the slide mounts (cardboard or plastic) are in good shape; if they aren't, the trays will sometimes jam.

(Side note: always buy the slide trays with the clear plastic cover; this protects the slides and projector mechanism from dust.)

The projector changeover issue may be a burnt-out coil, a stuck changeover blade (maybe melted from the heat of the lamp), or an automation issue. The issue in cinema 3 is probably that the changeover blade is adjusted incorrectly; tell us what type of projector it is and we can help you adjust it. The temporary workaround is to add 7 seconds of black leader at the start of every feature and thread to that point instead of the "8" on the threading leader.

Disconnect the curtain motor from the automation and see if it operates manually; if so, then it's not an automation issue. (Side note: GCC used to install funky curtain timers which would turn off the slides, bring up the screen lights, and close the curtain one minute before showtime, then would open the curtain at show start and close it for five minutes (before turning on the slides) at show end. These have their own timers which are used instead of the automation timers. See if you can get these if you want to use the curtains and show slides. Maybe someone else knows the brand name and/or model number.)

No idea on the CineQ stuff.
 

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Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 08-15-2003, 02:29 PM:
 
Dear Andrew.
The theatre certainly has some bugs to sort out, especially with the curtains opening & closing continuously and shows starting by themselves.
All that would be needed to set it off well would be Peter Sellers as the operator.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-15-2003, 09:30 PM:
 
Kodak Ektapro slide projector repair information and manuals:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/av/slideProjectors/service.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/av/slideProjectors/manual.shtml
 

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Posted by Dave Callaghan (Member # 1544) on 08-15-2003, 10:12 PM:
 
A Strong Wrap Detector - which is probably what Famous Players mounted at the top of the column of the Strong Alpha Platter -
has, on the non-operating side, what looks like a large, flat-headed screw (black, as I recall it), which is called the Wrap Detector Locking Knob Assembly. If you tighten this screw down, with the Wrap Detector Bar away from the micro switch, the bar will not be able to move. The wrap detector then functions as 3 fixed rollers. It will not shut your show down if a wrap occurs, but if there is no wrapping, your show will run perfectly fine. What you need to find out is what is causing the detector to trip so easily. Either you have a wrapping problem, which is what the detector is designed for, to prevent film damage, or the bar is dancing around too much when there really is no feeding problem, which calls for a creative solution.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-16-2003, 11:26 AM:
 
If it is the old NorthStar Famous house then it started out as a twin with 2 VIc8's in each booth with Xebex HiBeam lamphouses and Cinemation MKIV
The later was replaced with showman2's and the larger house upgraded to 70mm with a CP200 and 2 towers behind each machine to hold 1 hour of 70mm film
I doubt the cutain cycling is a frozen contact as it is seprate open/close contacts that are pulsed for the ADC curatin machines
Most likely the cams are set incorrectly in the motor or the CineQ is generating a set of cues or interference is causing contact closures to occur on the output board
 

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Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 08-17-2003, 10:49 AM:
 
Gord just about got it. As a Famous set up, the Cine-Q is the heart of the system. But unfortunately it is also proprietary and its not likely you are going to find information on it here or any where else. Since the only authorized technicians are Famous or Cinex out of Napanee, Ont, you are going to have to start there. When set up properly, the Cine-Q system is very powerful, but it can also have it's problems if not maintained. The Curtain motors are prone to problems with the cam switches and I would suggest starting there. Of course, if you did manage to get into the Cine-Q setup and played with any of the settings then you most likely induced the problem. In this case, you aren't going to have much choice but to call Cinex or a Famous technician.
 

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Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 08-18-2003, 09:09 AM:
 
Gord,

Andrew is talking about the Portage Place cinemas (across the street). Landmark took it over from Famous after the landlord locked them out. Northstar has been removed(then reinstalled) then removed again.

Kris Brunton
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2003, 10:17 AM:
 
Musical equipment
The portage opened with ShowmanII automations
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-18-2003, 10:56 AM:
 
Yes, Portage opened with Showman II because the old manuals are lying around. I think the CineQ went in around 1994.

When the Northstar was closed, what happened to its equipment? When it reopened, was the same equipment installed? Were seats reinstalled, or were they left from before?

What does Famous usually do with all their old removed equipment? Do they take everything, including fountains, seats, poppers, screens, etc? Is any of this available for resale? If so, what?

I think that question was answered before, but I couldn't fuind it anywhere.

[ 08-18-2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Andrew McCrea ]
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-18-2003, 04:23 PM:
 
I wrote to someone at FP long ago about used equipment and they said they take EVERYTHING usually and that stuff like projectors, amps etc are not for sale. I guess they rebuild old projectors are put them in those new Silvercity, paramount and colossus builds.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-18-2003, 06:05 PM:
 
Really? Hmmmm...

I have heard horror stories of FAMOUS just trashing old theatres. Ripping speakers off the walls, tearing screens (unless salvaged), smashing portholes, etc.

I know Cineplex sells old equipment, I just don't know the condition and selection of what they sell. I know for sure though, that seats are available... You can reach Ian Shaw at 1-800-333-0061 ex 2207.
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-18-2003, 06:24 PM:
 
They better not do that to the Capitol 6 next year if Famous chooses to sell the land.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 08-18-2003, 08:09 PM:
 
Not that I agree with the practice but... If they own the "business" that includes screens, seats, etc... and they have every right to destroy what they want so that a competitor cannot come in and use it.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-20-2003, 01:36 PM:
 
It was mentioned to make sure the clear potective plastic covering was put on the slide tray. We have these, but in Cinema 2, also known as "Rio", the slide projector shoots slides UP. If the protective tray is overtop, the slide shoots up, hits the plastic, then falls and jams the projector. I checked the other two cinemas slide projectors and they are set on (top) 60|30|... So that, where the molded line is on the projector, the line under the 30 matches up with it. I matched it up to be exactly the same in the Rio. I didn't want to turn it on just in case. There was no 80 either.

Any suggestions...
 

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Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 08-22-2003, 11:42 AM:
 
Ron Lacheur said;

quote:

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I wrote to someone at FP long ago about used equipment and they said they take EVERYTHING usually and that stuff like projectors, amps etc are not for sale. I guess they rebuild old projectors are put them in those new Silvercity, paramount and colossus builds.

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quote:

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I have heard horror stories of FAMOUS just trashing old theatres. Ripping speakers off the walls, tearing screens (unless salvaged), smashing portholes, etc.

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