Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World 70mm showing

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-16-2003, 12:19 AM:

from http://www.in70mm.com:
New 70MM print

40th anniversaries of the film's release and the opening of the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. (October 16-19, 2003).

This 70MM print is not restored with footage that was excised after the initial 70MM release, because the restoration is a long way from being completed, but there is a possibility that some restored 70MM footage may be shown at the opening night screening.

Best regards,
John Kirk
MGM Studios
Director, Technical Operations

Posted by Paul Cassidy (Member # 951) on 08-16-2003, 12:56 AM:

Well I hope they restore more of the Classic Films in 70mm so people will be able to experience Film at it's Best [beer]

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-16-2003, 01:18 AM:

Too bad they are always playing in california or the UK. When are we going to see some 5/70 up here dammit!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-17-2003, 09:30 PM:

Or over here where the sun rises first?

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 08-18-2003, 02:36 PM:

Problem ia: Here in Pheonix AZ, there's NO 70MM houses left to
my knowledge. I ran the last 70MM print (OKLAHOMA) some twenty
years ago.

FJN

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-18-2003, 03:38 PM:

quote:
Here in Pheonix AZ, there's NO 70MM houses left to
my knowledge.

A sad situation that is not unique to the city of Phoenix.

quote:
I ran the last 70MM print (OKLAHOMA) some twenty years ago.

I imagine the last first-run 70mm engagement in Phoenix would have been Hamlet...at the Camelview in early 1997.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-18-2003, 05:41 PM:

I took a look at the 70mm website in Paul's origonal post. Looking at the 1977 release dates of Star Wars 70mm Dolby no where was the El Dorado in Tucson, AZ mentioned. In fact, there was an advertisement for a theatre in Phoenix that advertised the only 70mm screening of Star Wars in 70mm Dolby in Arizona. I was 9 years old at the time, and went to see Star Wars at the El Dorado 3 times. The El Dorado was a huge 70mm 2 screen house equipped with Century JJs. I do remember 70mm Dolby advertised on the theatre marquee, and was even able to visit the then I.A.T.S.E. booth, and was in awe of the emensity of 70mm film. I need to research the AZ Daily Star and Tucson Citizen for further information. I did e-mail the powers to be at the 70mm website with this information.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-18-2003, 07:25 PM:

quote:
I took a look at the 70mm website in Paul's original post. Looking at the 1977 release dates of Star Wars 70mm Dolby no where was the El Dorado in Tucson, AZ mentioned.

Will,

As the author of the article in question, I feel compelled to respond to your post. Or, put another way: I'll take the bait.

That's interesting that you believe the original "Star Wars" played in 70mm in Tucson. Perhaps they did run it in 70mm at some point in its run...but they certainly didn't open it in 70mm (a point which was emphasized in my companion article to that list on the www.in70mm.com site, "The Original First-Week Engagements Of Star Wars"). In fact, Tucson didn't even open "Star Wars" until its 11th week of release.

I wasn't able to research the Tucson engagement beyond December of 1977, and up till then the El Dorado was not advertising a 70mm engagement (or even 35mm-Dolby for that matter). Furthermore, in checking my Master List of Dolby-Equipped Theatres, the El Dorado in Tucson doesn't even show up at any point during the timeframe of the original run of "Star Wars" (May 1977 - September 1978). In fact, the first Tucson theatre to join the Dolby list was the Buena Vista, which showed up in December 1978 (I believe installed for "Superman").

Is there a chance you're confusing "Star Wars" with "The Empire Strikes Back"? "Empire" most definitely played at the El Dorado in 70mm (see the "Empire" 70mm list at www.in70mm.com ), and I have ads in my collection.

Please let me know what turns up in your search of the Tucson newspapers if you end up performing such a search. If it turns out that Tucson did in fact run the original "Star Wars" in 70mm at some point, I'll be pleased to add the data to my list. But understand I need documentation (newspaper ad, theatre booking notes, etc.). Until confirmation, however, I'm not inclined to modify the listing. Thanks for your interest...and understanding.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 08-18-2003, 08:06 PM:

Mike, do you know if Titanic played in Arizona in 70mm? It was the last film playing at the old Cine Capri in Phoenix before it was torn down, but I haven't been able to find out if it was 70mm or not.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-18-2003, 08:43 PM:

quote:
Mike, do you know if Titanic played in Arizona in 70mm?

There weren't that many 70mm prints struck for Titanic, and I do not believe Phoenix was among the places to get one. However, the 70s floated around quite a bit in second-run and special screening situations.

Why not simply look this information up on microfilm? Aren't there any libraries in Scottsdale?! Just kidding. [Smile]

The library at Arizona State University carries both The Arizona Republic (Phoenix) and The Arizona Daily Star (Tucson) on microfilm as does the Historical Society in Phoenix.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 08-18-2003, 09:07 PM:

Yeah yeah, I know, but I figure you'd might know it off the top of your head since you seem knowledgable about it.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-19-2003, 01:53 AM:

Mike, I remember seeing ads for Titanic Revisited 3-D in Phoenix, but am unsure about Titanic.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 08-19-2003, 04:55 PM:

Will--
The Cine Capri (original) DID in fact screen STAR WARS in 70MM
starting in May 1977 and ran it for one year and two months to
'sold out' audiences. And that was on 37 runs a week burning
up two prints during its run!! (Whew)

FJN

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-19-2003, 05:25 PM:

quote:
The Cine Capri (original) DID in fact screen STAR WARS in 70MM
starting in May 1977 and ran it for one year and two months to
'sold out' audiences. And that was on 37 runs a week burning
up two prints during its run!! (Whew)

Will was commenting on the El Dorado Theatre in Tucson, not the Cine Capri! His Phoenix comment had to do with how the Cine Capri was advertising "The Only Theatre In Arizona With Star Wars In 70mm Dolby!" and how that claim didn't match his memory.

Yes, the Cine Capri ran Star Wars in 70mm...but not until four months into its run. (For more deatils, read the Star Wars articles I mentioned a few posts ago here and here ) The entire Cine Capri run was indeed one year and two months (60 weeks), but the 70mm print was only for ten of those months (September 1977 - July 1978).

A July 12, 1978 Variety news item re the close of the Cine Capri run mentioned three prints being used up.

[ 08-20-2003, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Michael Coate ]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-20-2003, 01:13 PM:

One reason some theatres ran 70mm prints and didn't advertise was the fact there processors were not dolbys but in the case of Starwars EPRAD SUperStarScopes and later UltraStereo and SMart units
There were many 70mm prints screened here in Ontario that were restricted to not advertising as such because they could not use the word Dolby in there adds and in allcases the distributors just said don't use the 70mm word to protect themselves

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-20-2003, 09:32 PM:

quote:
the distributors just said don't use the 70mm word to protect themselves

To protect themselves from what? A lawsuit? This is ridiculous. Dolby (the company) does not own any trademarks or copyrights on the term "70mm" so there's no reason why a theatre couldn't advertise they were running a 70mm print if that was what they were in fact runnning. What's wrong with advertising simply, "70mm six-track stereo" or some variant of that? Which, of course, is what has been done in the years prior to the introduction of Dolby, as well as in modern-day cases where a 70mm print was either non-Dolby-encoded or when a Dolby print was played in a theatre with a Dolby-compatible, non-Dolby-brand cinema processor.

At any rate, I'm not disputing your claim that some 70mm presentations over the years went unadvertised, but, in my mind it seems foolish to have done so given the marquee value of the "70mm" term.

More specifically, Gordon, through your post are you suggesting that the two Arizona engagements of Star Wars being discussed in this thread were run in 70mm unadvertised? Was that the point of your post? Just wondering since I have information to the contrary.

How many Dolby-compatible, non-Dolby-brand cinema processors were on the market in 1977?

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-21-2003, 07:55 AM:

Over the years I've seen on marquees and in newspapers the wording. Presented in 70MM 6 Track Stereophonic Sound or 70MM 6 Track Stereo Sound for non-Dolby houses. For when 70MM Dolby prints were available but the house was not equipped.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-21-2003, 09:28 AM:

No Iam not disputing the arazona question
Since most newspaper ads in major citys are a block add listing all the theatres they in the past listed the 70mm DOLBY houses in one group and the rest by themselves underit.
In canada at least they never just marked it as stereo if someone elses processor was installed it was just listed with the mono theatres and the marque usually said presented in 70mm stereosound
In ontario there were about 14 Starscope 70 installs and about the same from UltraStereo and 8 or 9 Smart 70 systems and there newspaper adds were always grouped with the mono houses

Dolby has always been very lawyer happy in keeping there name protected and zealous in making sure it wasn't used with any non dolby product

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-23-2003, 02:22 AM:

Who can fingure out why the lawyers do what they do. When we ran the Harris restoration of MY FAIR LADY, we were specifically instructed that we could not use any photos of Audrey Hepburn in our ads or flyers. No one could explain why this was; we complied but it remains a mystery.

Frank

Posted by Paul Cassidy (Member # 951) on 08-23-2003, 04:46 AM:

Mid City Complex had the only remaining 70MM cinema , just before it closed they ran all the 70mm the could and the crowds came , 2001: A Space Odyssey, Ben Hur , Titanic and others .Some people have long memories when they see 70MM on any film advertised and know the are going to see something special [thumbsup]

Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 08-23-2003, 07:48 AM:

Paul,

I believe the concept of "no AH" photos was not precisely as it may have been explained to your venue.

As I recall, the problem was one of authority and of billing block legalities. As such, there apparently could not be a photo of Audrey without a corresponding photo of Rex. This entire situation did not seem to be size dependent, as long as Rex was there somewhere.

The one sheet was a perfect example of this syndrome.

RAH

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-24-2003, 03:14 AM:

Well, I did do some research in the AZ Daily Star up through August 1977. Star Wars opened in Tucson at the El Dorado on Fri August 17, 1977 I believe. (I went through the microfische at the Tucson Public Library). "Star Wars" replaced "A Bridge Too Far".

The newspaper ad did not list 70mm Dolby. However, it did list prints by both Deluxe and Technicolor and having been filmed in Panavision. So maybe this will give a clue?

As I previously stated, I saw this film 3 times at the El Dorado. Media coverage regarding this film was big news, and as I said, unless I am senile alltogether, that the marquee stated 70mm and that I had visited the booth and do remember this. But, I will see if some of the IATSE projectionists remember, maybe I am mistaken? If I am, then I stand corrected.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-24-2003, 06:22 AM:

Robert,

Very interesting. I guess all that was relevant when the film first came out but decades later even the distributor's bookers don't have a clue as to why the restrictions are there. The billing size issue makes perfectsense. Many times in the press books the credit lines are given percentages referenced against the point size of the title, so it would make sense that images of the stars would have relational issues attached to them also. Thanks for the enlightment.

Posted by Paul Howard (Member # 1706) on 08-24-2003, 08:32 AM:

quote:
Too bad they are always playing in california or the UK. When are we going to see some 5/70 up here dammit!

I was lucky enough to See all 4 Alien films at the Bradford film museum, as part of their fantastic films weekend a few weeks back.

Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 were 70mm blow ups, and all had very powerful 6 track sound. The print quality was excellent.

This leads me to think, where are all of the 70mm prints of Star Wars and Jaws, E.T, etc. the films everyone would love to see (on the big screen). How hard is it to obtain them.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-24-2003, 03:16 PM:

quote:
I did some research in the AZ Daily Star up through August 1977.

Will,
Why did you search only up through August??? I already stated in an earlier post that I had done a search through December 1977. I also stated that Tucson began their run of Star Wars in the film's 11th week of release, and that it did not open in 70mm (which is explained in plain-and-simple English in my articles also previously mentioned in this thread). Only a few markets opened the movie in 70; most large markets got their 70mm prints later in the run.

The thing is, Tucson simply wasn't a large market and not likely to get 70mm prints except on titles where a large print run was made. Following Star Wars, for instance, Tucson theatres didn't run Close Encounters Of The Third Kind or Superman in 70mm. And in 1979 and '80, when Alien and The Empire Strikes Back had then-record 70mm print runs and exclusive initial wave 70mm platform releases, Tucson still didn't play them. (They did play Empire in 70mm, but started it in its second wave release a month following the initial release.) To futher state my case, I also gave a bit of information on install dates related to Dolby cinema proessors in Tucson theatres, a piece of information you have failed to offer any comment on both here and in separate private emails.

quote:
Star Wars opened in Tucson at the El Dorado on Fri August 17, 1977 I believe.

And I think that claim is incorrect, too. I believe it opened August 5. Geez, how difficult is it to look up simple items like this??!!

quote:
The newspaper ad did not list 70mm Dolby.

Are you surprised??? See my previous comments re the 70mm release of Star Wars. The thing is, Star Wars is generally acknowledged as the movie that kickstarted a "comeback" of 70mm (as an exhibition format) BUT there weren't that many 70mm prints made for it despite what people may think they remember. It was the Star Wars sequels, The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi, that had huge 70mm print runs that played in dozens of large and medium-size cities, and it is those two Star Wars movies whose 70mm experiences most people are likely to remember.

quote:
unless I am senile

Would you like me to respond to that? [Smile]

quote:
the marquee stated 70mm and that I had visited the booth and do remember this.

You also stated you were nine years old at the time, an age I find difficult to believe one would have a firm grasp of technical production and exhibition concepts. I also asked if it was possible that you were confusing your memories of seeing Star Wars in 1977 with that of Empire three years later? A memory that, in light of your most recent reply and Empire's 70mm status in Tucson, seems more and more likely.

quote:
But, I will see if some of the IATSE projectionists remember

Why? I've stated numerous times here that the concept of memory is overrated.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-24-2003, 06:09 PM:

Michael,
I was in a mad rush this past Saturday when I hastily found the news ads in the AZ Daily Star microfische. I will double check the release date next time I go back to the Tucson Public Library Main which is about an hr away and the only pubblic library in town to have these archives. Sorry I did not have enough time to research more. Next time I'll arrange my personal schedule just to please you!

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-24-2003, 06:36 PM:

Will Kutler wrote:

quote:
Star Wars opened in Tucson on Fri August 17, 1977

quote:
I was in a mad rush this past Saturday when I hastily found the news ads in the AZ Daily Star microfische. I will double check the release date next time I go back to the Library

Will,
Don't take it personally, but being in a mad rush is no excuse for doing sloppy work. I mean, the 17th of August wasn't even a Friday during the year 1977!

The opening release date isn't what is in question. To summarize my lengthy posts throughout this thread: if Tucson ran Star Wars in 70mm, they got the print later in its run.

[ 08-24-2003, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: Michael Coate ]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-25-2003, 09:50 PM:

I was lucky enough to run a friends 70mm print of IAMMW in my basement screening room about 12 years ago. This print supposedly was then used to restore some of the lost scenes in the laser disk version.This print definatley had some of the stuff missing from other VHS versions of the time.

Shortly after that we tried to run it again but it had vinegared too badly to run through the JJ I had at the time. That original run is definately something I will never forget though. It was also corrected print for deep dish screens. The soundtrack was also quite good, and very dynamic.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 08-26-2003, 07:24 PM:

Mark,

the laser was created using 70mm trims which had been excised from a print in early 1964.

If your friend's print has not yet gone to the land of "guitar picks" I'd be most interested, if at all possible, in taking a look at it.

RAH

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-28-2003, 09:46 AM:

Hi Bob,
Not sure if he still has it but I will check and find out. He loaned it(supposedly for use in the laser disk creation) to a rather unscrouplous film collector that sometimes makes posts on this site. When his print was returned it had become pretty really vinegared and he was not actually sure that they had returned his actual print..... Pretty sad as it ran really good and did not have the slightest hint of vinegar syndrome that last time we ran it...

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-28-2003, 02:53 PM:

An update from the Arclight Cinemas
It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
Spencer Tracy, Milton Berle, Sid Caesar, Buddy Hackett and more...
Director: Stanley Kramer
Rating: G
Running Time: 2 hrs. 45 min.
Genre: Adventure/Family/Action/Comedy

In the fall of 1963, two icons were born - the Cinerama Dome and Stanley Kramer's classic comedy It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. This October 17-19 our historic Cinerama Dome will showcase a 40th Anniversary Special Edition print presented in 70mm and, for the first time, in digital sound with the legendary intermission and "police calls" voiced by Spencer Tracy and Terry-Thomas.

Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 08-28-2003, 08:35 PM:

Paul,

The "police calls" were not voiced by either Tracy or Thomas.

They were recorded by a number of character actors / voice artists to be run after a ten minute intermission and before the Entr'acte.

We supplied this material to MGM in 6 track.

Also, if your friend loaned his print ten years or so ago for the laser, it was a major error as the folks in charge totally mishandled the film elements and damagaed his print along with all of the other trims...

and the long print of The Almamo, which is also heavily vinegared.

RAH

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 09-10-2003, 11:47 PM:

I recently returned from a trip to Arizona which provided me an opportunity to spend some time investigating the "Did Star Wars Play in 70mm In Tucson" and "Did Star Wars Begin Its Run In Phoenix In 70mm" topics discussed in this thread. Here is an update.

Before I begin, let me say that I apologize for causing the thread to drift given that the initial topic concerned a different movie. Actually, I take that back since I didn't cause it to drift, though I will admit to contributing to it staying in drift mode. But, can you blame me?

Re Will Kutler's memory of seeing Star Wars in Tucson in a 70mm presentation. Perhaps it did, but Will has yet to present any convincing proof. I feel he's going to have to come up with some better evidence than his memory. I've checked two different Tucson newspapers through the entire run of the film there and can see no evidence that the engagement was advertised in 70mm at any point during the run. It ran from August 1977 (5th, like I stated earlier; not Kutler's claim of the 17th) through May 1978. I also checked during the summer 1978 and 1979 re-releases, and again, no 70mm was being advertised. And before some of the naysayers chime in with the "it could've run in 70mm unadvertised" rhetoric, I'll just come out and make the bold claim of: I don't believe you. And as I stated earlier, evidence in Dolby Labs' records indicate the El Dorado Theatre wasn't even equipped with a Dolby sound system until after the original Star Wars run ended. (I realize the theatre could've had a non-Dolby-brand processor, which could explain the theatre's absence from the Dolby list, but then we're back to the issue of why it wasn't advertised in the local newspaper ads.)

If it appears I've been a bit harsh on Mr. Kutler, well, perhaps it is due to the repeated questions asked that have gone unanswered, both here in the thread and in separate private emails.

Moving on to Phoenix. Re Floyd Newton's claim in the thread that Star Wars began its Phoenix engagement in 70mm when I've claimed here and in my "Star Wars Original Engagements" article that it began in 35mm, switching to 70mm a few months into the run. Well, I met up with Mr. Newton and we spoke about his projectionist experience and his time spent working at the famous Cine Capri Theatre. During my enjoyable visit, Floyd thought about the situation and revised his claim made earlier in this thread, revealing to me that Star Wars did in fact begin its run at the Cine Capri in 35mm.

Hopefully, my post here has cleared up any confusion or unresolved questions.

OK, returning the discussion to It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World....

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-23-2003, 06:32 PM:

quote:
OK, returning the discussion to It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World....

OK. Additional engagement at Austin's Paramount Theatre in late November.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-24-2003, 11:42 AM:

They say it's a new 70mm print, but wasn't IAMMMMW originally presented in Ultra-Panavision at 2.75:1? Will it be presented this way or in a cropped 2.2:1 AR?

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-24-2003, 02:06 PM:

The claim at the Dome and others is this is a genuine Ultra-Panavision print (anamorphic lenses coming from Panavision).

I may be wrong in this, but I think almost all the original 70mm prints were not in UP70 format; rather they were rectified for projection on deep-curve Cinerama screens.

Posted by John Stewart (Member # 989) on 09-24-2003, 10:55 PM:

Paul, the word I got here at the Paramount was that we would be getting lenses from Panavision. I haven't heard anything else about the print other than it will be DTS.

John

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-24-2003, 11:05 PM:

According to the info I have, five of the eight films shot in Ultra-Panavision were for Cinerama. So I think they were anamorphic as well as being rectified for the deeply curved Cinerama screen.

Those films were:
It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World
Battle of the Bulge
The Hallelujah Trail
The Greatest Story Ever Told
Khartoum

In addition, UP films not for Cinerama were:
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962 version)
The Fall of the Roman Empire
and possibly
The Big Fisherman (I have conflicting info on this. One source says UP, Variety reported it as being shot for Super Panavision 70.

There were also films produced in Super Panavision 70 and used for Cinerama. Those were:
Grand Prix
Ice Station Zebra
2001: A Space Odyssey
Krakatoa, East of Java
Song of Norway

SuperPan 70 films not for Cinerama were:
Exodus
West Side Story
Lawrence of Arabia
Cheyenne Autumn
My Fair Lady
Lord Jim
Is Paris Burning (last reel supposedly only Panavision 70 blowup)
War & Peace
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang
Mackenna's Gold
Ryan's Daughter
Tron
Brainstorm

(And yes, I know about Far & Away, but that was called Panavision Super 70 or something of the sort and used different lenses, I think.)
I'm sure someone will claim I've got something wrong. Fire away...

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-24-2003, 11:31 PM:

quote:
they were anamorphic as well as being rectified for the deeply curved Cinerama screen.

Well, technically, for the Cinerama presentations, the anamorphic squeeze was entirely removed, then a progressive squeeze was added back in starting with no squeeze in the center, with some squeeze on the sides to allow for screen stretch. It was the screen, however, that undid the squeeze, not the projection lens. There may very well have been some actual anamorphic UP70 prints of some of these titles, but some claim not.

quote:
In addition, UP films not for Cinerama were:

Both RAINTREE COUNTY and BEN-HUR were shot in MGM Camera 65, which became Ultra-Panavision 70 (although COUNTY was only released in 35mm scope). As a matter of fact, the initial previews for MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY show an MGM Camera 65 credit. This was changed to UP70 by the time the film was released.
FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE was shot in UP70 but was released in standard spherical 70mm.

THE BIG FISHERMAN was SP70 (the first).

I've never heard of IS PARIS BURNING? having ANY SP70 photography.

And of course, TRON, Mackenna's Gold, and BRAINSTORM only had sequences shot in SP70. For that matter, some sequences in FAR AND AWAY had some VistaVision shots (the land rush scene). And Kenneth Branaugh's HAMLET was also shot in Panavision Super 70.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-25-2003, 12:48 PM:

quote:
Well, technically, for the Cinerama presentations, the anamorphic squeeze was entirely removed, then a progressive squeeze was added back in starting with no squeeze in the center, with some squeeze on the sides to allow for screen stretch. It was the screen, however, that undid the squeeze, not the projection lens. There may very well have been some actual anamorphic UP70 prints of some of these titles, but some claim not.

I'm having a hard time conceiving how that would work properly and it's hard to tell from the few printed examples I've seen of such "corrected" prints exactly what's going on. If the film was shot with a 1.25 squeeze, even though it's being projected onto a deeply curved screen, wouldn't the images in the center of the screen looked squeezed, especially if the object was relatively narrow, if anamorphic lenses weren't used in projection? It seems to me that such prints would have to have the 1.25 squeeze, anamorphic projection, as well as rectification for the deeply curved Cinerama screen. Am I incorrect?

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 09-25-2003, 01:21 PM:

Marty Hart has an excellent description of this including a rectified frame at his Widescreen Museum.

Rectified 70mm Cinerama

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 09-25-2003, 08:07 PM:

Yeah..thanks. I should have remembered that I've seen that page before.

What still doesn't make sense to me is that from the audience perspective, an Ultra-Panavision presentation with an anamorphic print projected on a relatively flat screen, would appear 25% wider than the UP negative printed optically corrected without the squeeze, projected on a deeply curved Cinerama screen, right?

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-17-2003, 05:29 PM:

Cinerama Dome Celebrates 40th Year. Here is an article from Wednesdays Hollywood Reporter.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/film/feature_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=2002137

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-17-2003, 05:50 PM:

The 70mm print I ran at home years ago was a rectified print and did not requirte any 1.25 Ultra Panavision lenses at all to run. The center third was not squeezed at all. It was squeezed only on the sides and this sort of squeeze is evedent on the "restored" laser disk version. These prints were meant to unstretch themselves on a deeply curved Cinerama screen just by utilizing the depth of the curve at the sides alone.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 10-18-2003, 08:18 AM:

Glad to see people looking at Marty Hart's excellent AWSM site. The amount of information on this site is huge and on the money as far as facts go. For years most in the biz could not even tell you the difference between Ultra Panavision and Super Panavision.

David

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-20-2004, 05:37 PM:

Bringing up a thread from the past [Big Grin]

I spoke with Mr. Newton today, and he gave me permission to post the following information, which was part of our conversation:

Mr. Newton did state that Star Wars did in fact run in 70mm at the El Dorado in Tucson. He recieved this information from Ernie Hoffman (spelling?), who was the Plitt District manager at that time. Mr. Newton also told me that the Cine Capri sent its spare 70mm splicer to the El Dorado for this purpose.

So maybe my memory is not that bad? [Big Grin]

Posted by Rick Hunter (Member # 1606) on 02-21-2004, 12:48 AM:

Later this year at the Astor Theatre, Melbourne, Australia...

---------------------------------------------------

It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World

Exclusive Limited Season at The Astor Theatre!

The special, 40th-anniversary presentation direct from The Cinerama Dome In Hollywood!

In 70mm Ultra-Panavision and DTS digital sound.

----------------------------------------------------------

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-21-2004, 05:48 AM:

About time. It, along with South Pacific, are the two 70mm films I have been waiting for. IAMMMMW in any 70mm length will do, can't wait for the full restoration though.......... I trust this print is not the Robert Harris restoration and just a reprint of the existing neg.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 02-21-2004, 02:59 PM:

quote:
trust this print is not the Robert Harris restoration and just a reprint of the existing neg.

Yes, but the quality of the print was excellent. No real signs of aging, negative dirt or scractches.

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 02-26-2004, 09:19 PM:

Will Kutler wrote:

quote:
Mr. Newton did state that Star Wars did in fact run in 70mm at the El Dorado in Tucson. he received this information from Ernie Hoffman (spelling?), who was the Plitt District manager at that time. Mr. Newton also told me that the Cine Capri sent its spare 70mm splicer to the El Dorado for this purpose.

So maybe my memory is not that bad?

Will,

I thought we had settled on "agreeing to disagree," but I see you've resurrected the discussion. Part of me says not to reply, but....

Will, the Plitt district manager was never contacted. That is not made clear in your post, and I suspect some readers may get the impression you are trying to suggest that he was recently contacted to settle the matter by remembering or looking up some records. The fact of the matter is you contacted former Cine Capri projectionist Floyd Newton (whom I have communicated with on a number of occasions) and asked about the situation to which he recalled (read: dug into memory) being asked to send a 70mm splicer to Tucson and that he thought it was for Star Wars.

Consider that there were three Star Wars movies released within a six year span and they can be easily mixed up with one another, particularly when making a twenty-plus years later recollection.

Will, your mind seems to be made up. Though you may very well be correct, the route you have taken to prove your claim does not make sense to me. (I'm curious if it makes sense to any other film-tech members reading this thread.) For Star Wars to have run in Tucson in 70mm six-track Dolby Stereo, please consider the following:

1) The El Dorado engagement of Star Wars does not appear to have ever been promoted in the local newspaper as a 70mm presentation at any point during its nine-month run.

2) The Cine Capri engagement in Phoenix was promoted as "The only theatre in Arizona with 'Star Wars' in 70mm Dolby!"

3) Dolby Labs' records do not include Tucson's El Dorado theatre during the 1977/78 timeframe of the original Star Wars engagement. (According to the company's records, a Dolby Stereo cinema processor was first installed in summer 1979.)

This situation does not need to be one of "Will vs Mike." Unfortunately, I suspect that is how you and possibly some other film-tch readers may be interpreting this. I'm sorry if that is the impression I have given. My perspective on this situation is very simple, and I will summarize for you:

My goal in research-related projects is simply to be as accurate as possible, and that means carefully selecting sources to be used and making reasonable judgments. Last year I prepared a historical document citing known 70mm engagements of Star Wars in its original run. You read the article and contacted me (both in private and publicly on this forum) suggesting that the Tucson engagement be added to the list because you remembered seeing it there. Will, I would very much like to add the Tucson entry to the project. However, I'm going to close by reminding you that I cannot justify including the Tucson details at this time due to a lack of published data or supporting documentation, as you have provided nothing of the sort and because I have found nothing in my own research to support your claim. Memories are not scientific and should not be used as a reference. I hope you understand.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 02-29-2004, 05:17 PM:

Michael,

I really appreciate you taking my post out of context! [thumbsup]

I finally had the chance to visit Floyd yesterday. A very interesting individual with a positive outlook on life. Floyd has extensive experience in the art of motion picture projection, having been the lead projectionist at a very prestigious 70mm house.

Some advice for you Michael. Get off your high horse and loose the attitude and ego! You should be humbled to have a person like Floyd be willing to spend time with you! Quit trying to show off your wealth of knowledge to everyone, and be wise enough to LISTEN and LEARN from someone like Floyd, who has a lot to share and teach!

Live for the here and now and quit beating your head about a meaningless topic! Has anyone else told you that?

I know what I saw at the El Dorado, as I saw Star Wars 3 times there on its initial release, and as I previously stated, was in the booth. Star Wars 70mm Dolby was also on the marquee!

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-29-2004, 07:21 PM:

I have no idea if you're correct or not but I believe he is only looking for something more concrete that folks' memories.

Live for the here and now and quit beating your head about a meaningless topic!

Here is where I disagree with you. There is nothing wrong with documenting the past and trying to do it as accurately as possible. I'm not sure why fact checking is being construed as ego. If you're no longer interested in a topic you brought up, fine, no one is insisting that you must be.