Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Century SAW & Century R4 soundhead

This is topic Century SAW & Century R4 soundhead in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 08-19-2003, 01:40 PM:

Comments on these model of projector and sound head?
Likes, dislikes?
How old of equipment would this be?
Is 2 grand a fair price for this if rebuilt?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-19-2003, 08:43 PM:

I like just about all Century projectors (except the model H/HH curved gate machines, as they are not real polyester friendly with more than a 20 minute reel of film)

As for the A series (SA, DA, MSA, SAW, etc.):

Likes:

When properly maintained, they project a beautiful picture.
Maintenance issues are few (cleaning and lubrication is about all there really is to do if things are set up properly).
The only liquid oil is in the intermittent. Major floor-soaking oil leaks are almost nonexistant on Centurys.
If you ever have to replace either picture or sound heads, they are far lighter weight than a Simplex.
They will put up with quite a bit of abuse before something gives, and even after that they can continue running (I have seen several Centurys with totally hammered out mainshaft bearings or bone-dry intermittents run like Swiss watches picture-wise, save for the horrible knocking sound in the case of the dead main bearings...)
If properly maintained, they are very easily and quickly repaired on the gear side.

Dislikes:

Framing carriage only goes about 3-4 perfs either direction (You can rack a Simplex almost a frame and a half either way if centered)
If neglected, the gear side can become a nasty sludge-pit, making repairs somewhat messy.
If the trap is dropped, it usually becomes permanently warped, making the picture unfocusable.

Century soundheads (R3, R4, R5 and the M-versions):

Likes:

SIMPLE. Only a handful of moving parts to worry about.
All sealed bearings (a rare few do have bushings in the mainshaft that must be oiled occasionally)
No 'dirt-embedder' roller to harm film.
Relatively easy to A-chain, if the exciter alignment is near-perfect.
Component Engineering's reverse-scan mod drops in without any modifications.

Dislikes:
Older models have an idler roller that is notorious for drying up and producing a chirping squeaking noise. (Newer ones have sealed bearing idlers, and they can be added to older machines)
Holdback sprocket pad roller alignment can be very finicky at times
Poly-V belt driven models can experience slippage problems, especially if the pulleys and/or belt is saturated in oil or slung grease.
Exciter socket wiring can become corroded or loose and burn up (I have only seen this happen with Century, Cinecita, and Monee [made-in-India Century 'clone] machines).

The A series has been around since the late 50's/early 60's, and are still manufactured today.

IMO, $2K is a bit steep for any used 35mm projector/soundhead combo, even if rebuilt.

-Aaron

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-19-2003, 11:02 PM:

Depending on the workmanship of the "rebuild," $2K can either be a ripoff or a bargan. Many rebuild shops should be called "repaint" shops...I rarely see a proper rebuild.

A rebuild could entail just about everything, depending on how much wear is on the unit(s). If the intermittent needs to be rebuilt then you are talking about a costly item that would certainly push the needed resale price up. I've seen "rebuilt" machines go for about 85% of new and worth every penny...the functioned as well or better than new in virtually every respect. Unlike a new machine, the rebuilt one got personal attention rather than assembly line attention.

Steve

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 08-20-2003, 03:10 AM:

I would fully agree with Steve. The term rebuilt can be very subjective indeed. I have done rebuilt heads and spent $2000.00 on parts alone. Not all machines need that much work. It often depends on the severity of the problem on a per machine basis. The quality of the paint job is never really an issue in my mind, what really matters is that the machine runs smooth, quiet, is leak free and puts out a stable image. If you are paying for a rebuild it does not hurt to find out what parts went into the machine. It is quite common to have to replace worn out gears on Century rebuilds due to years of neglect.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 08-20-2003, 07:34 AM:

Dear Brad, I belive you might be referring to the post by Konrad Schiecke in the 4 sale section of the forum. At 2k this set up is a STEAL! Konrad does all of my rebuilds and I can assure you He doesn't just slap some new paint on and call it a day. He brings all His machines back to better than new specs. I consider Him one of the best in the country and IMHO you can't go wrong dealing with Him. He stands by His work 100%. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-20-2003, 09:33 AM:

I agree with both Steve and Fred here. A real rebuild means checking EVERY part in a machine and replacing it if out of tolerance or excessive wear. Many parts HAVE t be replaced anyway and any rebuild should include LaVezzi VKF sprockets. Cost to peoperly rebuild an SA movement alone is almost 800.00 in parts and labor!! I will also vouch for Konrads quality workmanship. I would best describe his workmanship as Museum quality which is something way beyond even a great rebuild.

As to the quirks and good sides of Centurys......

The very best ones are the old cast iron model C's. They have the strongest mainframe of any U.S. built projector ever.

The sound head will perform well running reel to reel or platter but does not run test loops very well.

Be wary of getting a machine with mis-matched gear pairs. There were many problems about 15 years ago with the pitch of the gear teeth being wrong as made by several different manufacturers of parts. These projectors actually self destruct over time!! Any gears should only be relaced in pairs!

I used my two pairs of SA's on feature film dailies for close to 50 feature films and several other pairs of model c's I sold years ago have done three times that number of features and are still putting out rock steady pictures today.

Mark