Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: continuing the splice topic started in the you suck thread

This is topic continuing the splice topic started in the you suck thread in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 08-22-2003, 09:23 PM:

OK,

I thought I would start here and restate what we have been doing with the reel change marks...

I'll describe the film as you would approach the reel change splice.

About 24 frames before the splice there will be placed a small piece of splice tape that is cut to be a bit less than 1/2 inch. This tape is folded over the top of the film on the soundtrack side(since it is always up.) This fold is short enough that it never touches the soundtrack at all and just goes a bit below the perfs. About 12 frames before the reel change another one is placed. Then the splice is made on BOTH sides with the tiger stripe splice tape. The marking proceedure is repeated on the head side of the new reel.

Also, feel free to discuss masking tape, artist's tape, or any other tape related ideas in film handling. It's all on topic for the ideas I want to hear. [Smile]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-22-2003, 09:43 PM:

Breaking down a film should not be all that difficult and should not require a bunch of markings to find a reel change. All you really need is two things. One is the ability to count and two is patience.

If you look closely at the film print on a platter you will see defined changes in the surface of the edges of the film. Count how many of these changes there are. If you count more than the number of reels for the print then one or more of the reels has a factory splice in it. This is where the patience comes in to play to make sure that you don't miss a splice. One important tool other than eye sight is the ability to feel. Feel for the splice by placing your finger on top of the print edge surface. Soon as you don't feel that splice anymore stop and check to see if it is a reel change splice. Believe me it's not hard.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-22-2003, 10:14 PM:

Kodak slits 38 35-mm strips from each "wide roll" of print film. Each slitter knife has its own cut quality "fingerprint", which shows up as a slight difference in gloss as you look at the side of the wound roll:

Kodak Slitting and Perforating

As Darryl notes, each reel of a feature will usually have a different gloss as you look at the roll sitting on the platter. Of course, a reel with a lab splice will have two different strips too. Use a good light, and the difference in gloss is usually quite easy to see.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-23-2003, 02:18 AM:

Jeez...I wish people wouldn't add all sorts of extra crap onto the print, including tape wrapped around the side. Just extra work for me to remove it and try to get the residue off. I've no desire for the picture to shift sideways as that goes by. And although I don't use SDDS I do try to respect the track.

I guess the motto of the modern booth is "If we can save 5 total minutes on breakdown by impairing our presentation a bit and also screwing the next guy or girl...we'll go for the 5 minute savings!"

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-23-2003, 02:27 AM:

naturally the tape should be removed when shipping out, with a possible exception if the tape is right at the splice (unmissable by the next person) and painlessly removable. i have not found that my method of doing this is visible/audible on screen in any way (we don't do sdds), but i have found that if the splice isn't marked in some way then the union guy has problems breaking down. [Frown]

i'd rather do it my way than make opaque splices. as it is i rarely get to do either build-up or break-down so i'm not in a position to unilaterally change the way things are done.

carl

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-23-2003, 11:45 AM:

The union guy at Carl's theatre must really suck if he needs all those pieces of tape to identify splices when breaking films down from a platter.

One problem that I can see with using pieces of tape on the edge of the film is that, when removed, the tape usually leaves sticky goo on the film, which could cause brainwraps and other fun and excitement if the print plays at a platter house. If I were to get a print like that, I'd almost prefer that the previous user didn't remove the tape so that I could easily see that it was there and remove the tape and goo properly, rather than risking film damage and lost shows. I'd also be concerned about damage to the SDDS track, if there is one.

Still, unless the print is really splicy, there should be no need to use anything other than clear tape when splicing the reels together for platters or large reels. I agree completely with Darryl's points: it's not hard to feel for the splices without even looking at the film. For the really nasty prints with dozens of splices, even I will use zebra tape (to distinguish reel-changes splices from repair splices made with clear tape), but fortunately those are relatively rare.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-23-2003, 12:21 PM:

Kevin, you're really putting TOO much into marking your splices.

Last Thursday I built up a print of "American Wedding" which had 1/2"-wide foil tape across the entire width of the film, on BOTH sides of the print. These foil strips were then covered, again on both sides, with clear splice tape. There was one of these things at the beginning of the print, and another at the start of the credits. A bit of Film-guard removed the goop left behind by the foil tape.

I sure hope there is not an automation system out there which requires 1/2" wide cues, across the whole width, on both sides!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-23-2003, 04:41 PM:

Could those cues have been from some sort of older auto-changevoer automation?

Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 08-23-2003, 05:42 PM:

It seems that most are in agreement that the cue marks are a bad thing. Thanks for all the feedback on the subject.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-24-2003, 03:58 AM:

as for our union guy, i think the problem is more the union, if what i hear is correct. they are simply taught to use opaque tape for everything but repair splices. go figure.

carl

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-24-2003, 06:05 AM:

Darryl said: "All you really need is two things. One is the ability to count and two is patience."

Come on Darryl, you forgot the can of white cieling paint and an extra wide paint roller to swath it all over the edges of the print. [evil]

Frank

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-24-2003, 10:29 AM:

Actually it was the abundance of white shoe polish bottles that I had to throw out when taking over a booth once. Obviously I couldn't find any white shoes in the booth for the use of this stuff so in the trash it went. [Smile]

Posted by Joshua Burnham (Member # 1640) on 08-24-2003, 03:32 PM:

When breaking down a print I carefully slide the old frames just to the outside of splice. When breaking down the frame which I use as a marker comes out of the print just before the changeover gets to the MUT. I use zebra splice tape on all my changeovers which allows me to locate them just by looking down at the print. I Always remove my sensor tape because I hate receiving prints that had'nt had the tape removed. All I do is fell down the edge of the perf holes until it comes. This being the most tedious part but it beats ending up on the "YOU SUCK" thread.

Joshua Burnham

Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 08-24-2003, 08:13 PM:

As in the past, film break down and proper, "professional" splicing has been a pet peeve of mine for some time.

This past weekend, we got in a, somewhat "used" Print of "Finding Nemo". During setup, one of my projectionist was very frustrated at the extreme poor state of the print. Multiple layers of splice tape, missing tails, creases and scratches. We even had one reel that the film was folded back on it's self, about half way through the reel, and the film continued to be wound, in the wrong direction, for the remainder of the reel. Now it wouldn't have bothered me that much except we lost our first show because of a film break (after the projector). By the time the safeties kicked in and stopped it, we had about 100 feet of film on the floor and a massive brain wrap. Since it was my day off (Right! like owners get those!), I wasn't around to experience the panic. When called, because 20 minutes had already elapsed, I told him to cancel the show, not to worry about rushing and to take his time fixing the brakage.

Later that night, when I got back, I proceeded to inspect the whole print. In addition to the above problems, that were fixed, I was horrified to find breaks, about every 4 inches for about 50 feet, between the sprocket hole at the outer edge of the print. No wonder the film broke! Needless to say, after a couple of hours and a roll of splice tape, the print was ready to go.

Now, the question I have is who was the moronic fool who broke this print down last and who in their right, moronic, mind would hire someone like that? Until such time that we as operators and owners insist on professionism and attention to detail, this is going to continue. And, I don't care how many seconds are saved by tearing splices on breakdown and not removing them.

Either you are proud of your work, or you aren't. If you are, great... kodos to you... you are not who this is directed at. If you aren't, well... quit, get out, run away and don't use anything more complicated than a DVD player to show movies.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 08-24-2003, 11:09 PM:

I just CANNOT see what the big deal is about finding your splices while breaking down. Tapes and shoe polishes are obviously really inconsiderate to use, not very good to be put on the print, through the gate or your rollers, and above all, overkill in what should be a relatively minor problem. I always take an extra minute or two before breaking down, run my fingers over where the reel visibly changes, until I see and/or feel a splice, and then mark it by taking a small clipping of an old leader or trailer (usually no more than 2 or 3 frames worth) and gently sliding it into the print next to the splice, in a vertical position. That way you have a constant point of reference to look for while the platter is spinning, without having to wipe off whatever is gummed up under those stupid and expensive edgemark tapes.

It's just not rocket science...

And I shudder to imagine union operators being trained to join reels with opaque tape! That's the kind of quality concern I would expect from a part time teenaged first year, not a "professional"

My $.02

Posted by Nathan Wade (Member # 1622) on 08-25-2003, 12:05 PM:

What I used to do when I was building a print was have the one of the blades moved about 1/8 of an inch that will have the tape over-lapping over the edge. Using that yellow "I" marked tape I pulled the tape to where it would be clear on the film to leave a yellow mark on the edge of the splice. I folded the hanging splice over the edge and the splice is marked.

By The way I sometimes make it hard to separate the splice

I hope this won't put me in the "YOU SUCK" category... [uhoh]

(I'm trying to post a example but I'm getting a login error)

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 08-25-2003, 03:29 PM:

What Andrew said!

Nothing more needs to be added.

End of thread!

Bill.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 08-26-2003, 07:54 PM:

As I have said many times before, opaque tape should be banned from the booth.