Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong AP3 Platter make-up mode

This is topic Strong AP3 Platter make-up mode in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005257

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-26-2003, 11:10 AM:

My new drive-in opens tomorrow night. We'll build our first print tonight, as it's only a single feature.

However, on Thursday night, I want to be able to load my Friday night double features WHILE the other show is running. Is that possible?? I can't find anywhere in the manual that says you can load one print while another is running?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-26-2003, 11:23 AM:

Sure you can make or break a show while another is playing. When the deck you are making up to is in 'make up' mode, its only control is from the MUT (and of course the deck is disengaged from the motor for breaking down).

-Aaron

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-26-2003, 01:23 PM:

Barry, the only thing I can mention is that when you assemble or break down a print, be careful of the speed at what you do it at. As far as I know, the AP3 platter still uses outriggers. If so, the wind currents created by the outriggers of the deck just above the deck you are using as payout will make that payout very unstable. Keep an eye on the payout head and you can easily tell if you are using too much speed in break-down or make-up.

As a rule, I very seldom make up or break down a show when the deck below it is in the pay-out mode. Generally, I'll make sure I am taking up on the deck below the deck used for building or dismantling.

Reading the above might be confusing.....so whatever you use, just watch your speed and you should have no problems develope with flim flying all over the place.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-26-2003, 02:14 PM:

Thanks guys for your help. I've downloaded the manuals for both the table and the platter, and am printing out the "TIPS" sections for Theading, Building and Splicing. I've never built a print in my life, and I go on screen Wednesday night at 8:00 p.m. (CDST), so I guess now would be a good time to learn.

I don't have any of those "suction cups" or "Beavan Poo's" or whatever they're called. Do I need to find some before tonight?

Wish us luck

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-26-2003, 02:33 PM:

Barry, to be safe, just build up and especially break down from the bottom deck if you've got another show running at the time, at least until you get used to it. That way you won't have to worry about the control plate's arm getting bounced all over the place from the wind generated by the spinning decks.

You should be fine without suction cups or beavan poo's. Just tuck the tail under the print. With an AP3, tuck the side of the film touching the deck under the print first. To avoid a tail wrap, make sure that the roll (print) doesn't cover the entire width of the tucked tail (leave an 1/8" at the narrowest part).

Good luck! I'm sure you'll have a great time. [Smile]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-26-2003, 09:49 PM:

As far as stickum puckies are concerned, I simply take a preview and masking tape and wrap them with masking tape so the sticky side of the tape is out. Works great!

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-27-2003, 12:20 AM:

Be careful when stopping and starting the platter during tear down. I have seen the film fly off and become tangled in the take up carriage and cause a big mess.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-27-2003, 12:33 AM:

quote:
I don't have any of those "suction cups" or "Beavan Poo's" or whatever they're called. Do I need to find some before tonight?

I've had only occasional success with the tail tuck. If you can't get it to stay & have got to be sure of the show, take a couple of screw tops from 20 oz Cokes, stick a sticky-side-out loop of masking or duct tape on the flat part, & plant them at the perimeter of the feedout near the tail. Be sure to clean the deck after that show has run.

"Tail tuck" sounds like a plastic surgery procedure.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-27-2003, 01:13 AM:

Daryl, are you sure you don't have that reversed? I've always tucked the top edge of the film under the roll and the few times an inexperienced operator has tucked the buttom edge in is when we've gotten our tail wraps.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-27-2003, 02:05 AM:

You only get a tail wrap if you let the tail disappear for a bit under the print. I've never had a problem with doing it that way... and I find it holds better than top under first. If you have problems with the tail tuck not holding tuck a little further in from the end of the tail so that there is a support brace right under where you are tucking.

Of course if you don't like tail tucking you could always make some loops to place around the print.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-27-2003, 03:26 AM:

*shrugs*
To each their own I guess, I've never had a problem with a top-tuck coming loose on me, but I could just be lucky.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-27-2003, 08:57 AM:

if those platter decks are metal not aluminum you can go out and get you some of those little magnets with adhesive on them and some of the bottle tops like you would find on 1 leter bottles, they are a bit bigger than the 20 oz bottles. Just tape the magnet to the top and it will magnetically stick to the platter so long as it is metal.

You can also build up on those type decks if the platter below it has the film taking up on it. The wind will not bother it then.

If you are wanting to build up your double feature on one platter it can be done so long as the running time does not exceed 4 hrs.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-27-2003, 09:11 AM:

Strong platters are aluminum.
Although the disc can turn fairly quickly at startup, I've used hockey pucks as "end-holders" sometimes and never had one fly off. Rubbing the face on some raw cement removes any hardened rubber and gives a good grip if I'm doubtful.
I don't like the suction cups that come with the platter and haven't ever seen them acually in use, like any suction cup they require a very smooth surface and will detach in time regardless.

If you're unfamiliar with platters it's easy to miss the very very important rule of NEVER taping the outside end. Don't!!! The best possible result is torn film, but the payout can be heavily damaged and even show-stopping projector damage is possible.

Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 08-27-2003, 09:21 AM:

Tried the tuck, don't like it (both the top and the bottom). Tried the "sucky" think, seldom work. Got the idea of a film wrap, here on the forum, works great! Take a length of old trailer, or leader, and wrap it around the movie and tape it to it's self. Be sure not to let the tape touch the movie as it will then try to pull it though the brain, which is not a good idea. When the movie plays though the wrap will be left on the platter at the end.

Wanted to try the puck, but never got around to it before finding the wrap, so I can't say.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-27-2003, 09:22 AM:

At the South Park D/I in Louisville, I used a small clip board-style clip (like we used to hang time schedules up with), and just clamped the film end down to the platter. You had to remember it was there, but after knocking it loose once or twice, you won't do it again.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-27-2003, 11:58 AM:

Tim mentioned paper clips. The works OK on CFS platters, but not Strong's. Although they are very effective on some platters, I don't like to use them because if sctatching of the alumunum surface near the edge.

Tail tucks?? [puke]

This is what I do and I do it with an old preview. It does not cost anything and won't throw itself off the platter. Works great! Most of the time I use three....each one placed 120 degrees from each other. The do not leave a gooey residue on the platter. When the sticky side of the tape is worn out, just a few more inside-out wraps fixes it right up again.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-27-2003, 12:23 PM:

good luck with the opening "break a leg " [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-27-2003, 12:24 PM:

Another idea is to make an "hula hoop" out of 1-inch flexible PVC pipe and put that around the outside of the roll as a retaining ring, attaching it to the platter surface. Even if the platter speed goes wild, it should keep the print from sliding or suffering "platter fling". If you like the idea of a film-based retaining ring, Kodak's subsidiary FPC sells a very stiff 7-mil polyester leader used by processing labs:

http://www.fpchollywood.com/film-leaders-lab-processing-machine-leaders-blue-polyester-leaders.html

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-27-2003, 09:28 PM:

TECO stick a poos work well. I only use a wrap with long movies.

Tucking the tail works fine. As long as you build up properly and your prints are super static charged, then you won't have any problems.

I can only remember one brain wrap recently, and that was because someone didnt get all the adhesive off after removing cue tape.

I can't even remember the last time I had a print with bad static, but if you do have a static problem, I've foudn that putting q-tips in the keepers on the outside of the brain will keep the film from jumping a roller.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-27-2003, 09:34 PM:

quote:
I can't even remember the last time I had a print with bad static.

The improved Kodak VISION Color Print Film with the scratch-resistant conductive anti-static layer has been on the market for well over a year. Before that, labs had to add a special anti-static additive (ACL Staticide) to the final rinse in the processing machine, so sometimes a few prints got out without adequate static protection. Now, ALL 35mm Kodak color prints should be very resistant to "static cling" on platters. [thumbsup]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-27-2003, 10:41 PM:

Chris, use rubber bands instead of Q tips. Cue tips can dislodge themselves and possibly jam the pay-out arm. I stole the rubber band idea form a Regal theatre.

Sticky poos....sure they work. But if it is one of those poos that is about 16mm high, a fart in a windstorm can blow the tail up an over that thing. Besides, Poo costs money. Previews are free. I'm cheap!!!! [Big Grin]

I still think tail tucks [puke]

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-28-2003, 12:02 AM:

Paul:
Do you mean connect the keepers with rubberbands?
I'm not sure I understand.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-28-2003, 12:26 AM:

Chris, yes. That is what I was getting at. It works great! Use a low-tension rubber bands between each parameter roller on the pay-out head, probably the same as what you are doing with Q-tips. [Smile]

Here is a picture. I just happen to have a junk pay-out head from a CFS platter to use as an example. Sorry about the crappy drawing of the rubber bands, but I think you will immediately see what I am talking about. It looks as though there is not enough clearence for the rubber band to stay clear of an idler roller, but there is:

Complements to Regal...probably one of their "trade secrets" that I am probably not supposed to know about...you know Regal... [Big Grin]

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-28-2003, 09:51 AM:

Actually, I stick the q tips inside the rollers. On our brains there is a hole in the center of the outside rollers so I stick the qtip in and then if the film does go up onto the roller, it has to travel up about 6 inches before going over.

I'll try the rubberbands tonight, it seems easier to thread like that than with the qtips.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-28-2003, 01:31 PM:

Chris, I think you will like the rubber band thing. Let us know what you think of the idea after you try it.

The only time I have seel film climb the roller is when the roller spindle was bashed and bent due to careless operation such as turning the platter motor on while the center ring is only engaged in one hole.

I always insist my operators never place the center ring on the platter without engaging the pins in both holes. I have seen more pay-out heads severly damaged because someone had their "drift factor" engaged and not paying attention to what they are doing.