This is topic Optical sound format for Clockwork Orange re-issue? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-29-2003, 06:25 AM:
 
The IMDB notes that the sound format for the Clockwork Orange re-issue was Dolby Digital. It was originally mono, did they re-mix it for stereo & put an SR optical track on it?

IMDB also has the re-issues as being outside the US. Has anyone in the US gotten the DD print?
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-29-2003, 06:32 AM:
 
They certainly made a stereo re-mix of it, because my DVD has both mono and 5.1 channel versions, both are Dolby Digital, there is no DTS, MPEG or PCM. Whether the stereo mix was used on the theatrical re-release I don't know, but I would think it was probable, unless it was not ready at the time that the new negatives were made, which I suppose would be possible if the theatrical re-release was a rush job.

I seem to remember that the DVD release came very soom after the theatrical re-release, at least it did here in the UK, but the situation here with this title was rather strange, the film having been withdrawn from distribution at the request of Kubrick soon after its original release, and no video release ever having been made. The film had been totally unavailable here, in any legitimate form, for almost thirty years.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-29-2003, 06:46 AM:
 
The new prints that were made around 1997-1998 for the WB 75th festival had mono tracks (and looked stunning). Those print numbers begin with "97" or "98" (e.g. "98001"). As far as I know, it hasn't been reprinted since then.
 
Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-29-2003, 08:54 AM:
 
If a film has a Dolby Digital track then the analog track will be Dolby SR. I think this is a rule.
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-29-2003, 09:11 AM:
 
Michael, I think that is an unwritten rule. I spoke with someone at Dolby in L.A. once and they said it could be anything, if the filmmaker wanted it that way.

The original release of Clockwork Orange had mono Dolby A tracks.
 
Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-29-2003, 09:15 AM:
 
Scott wrote:

quote:

The new prints that were made around 1997-1998 for the WB 75th festival had mono tracks (and looked stunning). Those print numbers begin with "97" or "98" (e.g. "98001"). As far as I know, it hasn't been reprinted since then.
Our release was quite a bit later than that; I can't remember the date, but when Kubrick died the NFT did a tribute season, but weren't able to include 'A Clockwork Orange' as far as I remember, but not very long afterwards the re-release was anounced. I wasn't able to get to the cinema to see it, but the DVD (with the stereo re-mix) was in the shops soon afterwards.

Tim wrote:

quote:

The original release of Clockwork Orange had mono Dolby A tracks.
When was Dolby A mono introduced on film? 1971 sounds early, but I can't find a date on the Dolby site. Were all prints Dolby? If the Cat 364 /E2 combination was available then, very few cinemas would have had it.
 
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 08-29-2003, 11:53 AM:
 
I think Dolby noise reduction was used in production and post-production. Original release prints were mono and did not have noise reduction encoding.
 
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 08-29-2003, 12:29 PM:
 
Dolby is credited in Clockwork Orange because it is one of the first films to use dolby noise reduction in post production sound mixing. All original release prints of the film were non-dolby mono.

/Mitchell
 
Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 08-29-2003, 02:35 PM:
 
Wendy Carlos used Dolby A extensively in the production of the synthesized score for Clockwork Orange. Without a polyphonic synth and only an 8-track recorder (may have been more by that point - Switched-On Bach was only 8) tracks had to be bounced and bounced and bounced to make enough space for multi-layered orchestral arrangements. Without Dobly A it would have been mostly hiss.
 
Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 08-29-2003, 03:37 PM:
 
Dobly??? [Big Grin]
Spinal Tap lives!
 
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-29-2003, 03:38 PM:
 
"Tommy" was Dolby A mono.
 
Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-29-2003, 03:48 PM:
 
"Tommy" had 4 Track Mag Stereo prints available and some engagements were presented in Quintaphonic Sound (5 channel). There was 70MM prints available for the 1977 reissue.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-29-2003, 04:27 PM:
 
Tommy probably had more different alternate sound formats than many other titles
Quintephonic 4 track qs matirxed dbx mag prints
70mm prints with Dolby NR
Dolby mono prints
standard mono prints
70mm dbx print with split surround (similar to the 35mm quint system)
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-29-2003, 04:41 PM:
 
quote:
Tommy probably had more different alternate sound formats than many other titles
Tommy has also had some Dolby SR prints made in the past decade. And recently, even some SDDS prints have surfaced (which mirror the original Quintaphonic channel layout).

quote:
70mm dbx print with split surround (similar to the 35mm quint system)
And how might such a print be reproduced if this occured prior to the introduction of Dolby split surround?

I mentioned in the CDS thread recently that the book Wide Screen Movies mentions Tommy as having the most number of print formats. I commented that Fantasia may hold that distinction if one factors in both picture and sound formats and re-releases.

A couple of years ago the American Cinematheque in Los Angeles ran a Stanley Kubrick fest. The titles in which new prints were supplied had digital sound. A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, etc.
 
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 08-29-2003, 06:15 PM:
 
S80/2696/2804
"This list contains films which have been released with Dolby encoded sound-tracks. In some cases the film is available with alternative formats in different countries."
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-29-2003, 07:50 PM:
 
quote:
"This list contains films which have been released with Dolby encoded sound-tracks.
Jeffry,
That looks like a list of Dolby-encoded mono soundtracks.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-29-2003, 08:32 PM:
 
THere were many other Dolby mono releases as well after and during that period
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-29-2003, 08:52 PM:
 
I am confused over the release of "A STAR IS BORN (1976) and "STEPPENWOLF (1974). From what some of you had posted, there already were Dolby encoded mono prints prior to 1974 so "STEPPENWOLF" must have been the first film released in Dolby A stereo instead of the Barbara Streisand film which many had said was the first. I do recall reading articles at the time in Boxoffice magazines that "STEPPENWOLF" was to be the very first film to be released with a Dolby noise reduction soundtrack. Can anyone shed some light on this?

-Claude
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-29-2003, 09:08 PM:
 
Listomania is usually credited as the first DOlby Stereo release format 03 3 screen channels only no surround
Star is Born I believe was the first 04 Dolby STereo with surround
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-29-2003, 09:09 PM:
 
quote:
I am confused over the release of "A STAR IS BORN (1976) and "STEPPENWOLF (1974). From what some of you had posted, there already were Dolby encoded mono prints prior to 1974 so "STEPPENWOLF" must have been the first film released in Dolby A stereo instead of the Barbara Streisand film which many had said was the first. I do recall reading articles at the time in Boxoffice magazines that "STEPPENWOLF" was to be the very first film to be released with a Dolby noise reduction soundtrack. Can anyone shed some light on this?
The best I can tell....

First Dolby Stereo (3-channel; L-C-R): Lisztomania

First Dolby Stereo (4-channel; L-C-R-S): A Star Is Born

First 4-track mag with Dolby NR: Nashville

First 70mm with Dolby NR: Logan's Run

First 70mm-Dolby with Baby Boom: Star Wars

I know the first 70mm-Dolby titles weren't part of the question, but I've mentioned the firsts because they are frequently misrepresented in articles and discussions like this one.
 
Posted by Robert Throop (Member # 61) on 08-30-2003, 10:36 AM:
 
"the Little Prince" played at Radio City Music Hall in 3 track mag which was Dolby encoded.
 
Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 08-30-2003, 10:43 AM:
 
Film Sound History: 70's

Motion Picture Sound 1930-1989
 
Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-30-2003, 08:12 PM:
 
quote:
he best I can tell....
First Dolby Stereo (3-channel; L-C-R): Lisztomania
First Dolby Stereo (4-channel; L-C-R-S): A Star Is Born
First 4-track mag with Dolby NR: Nashville
First 70mm with Dolby NR: Logan's Run
First 70mm-Dolby with Baby Boom: Star Wars
According to my notes (but sources long forgotten), A Star is Born, not Logan's Run was probably the first 70mm film with Dolby NR, since A Star is Born was released first (right?) and was released in 4tk Mag, 6tk Mag, 4tk Mag Dolby, 6tk Mag Dolby, SVA and Academy.

Logan's Run was significant because it was supposedly the first film to use equalized monitors during mixing and dubbing.

By the end of 1977, the year of Star Wars, Dolby reported that 30 films had been released in Dolby formats (12 for that year.) However, many 70mm Dolby Mag films after that point did not use the baby boom format and used discrete tracks instead. 70mm Discrete Dolby releases included Heaven's Gate, Annie, Tron and Let's Spend the Night Together.

Superman was the first film to experiment with Dolby 70mm Splilt Surround, although Apocalypse Now was the first released. Superman was the 50th Dolby release.

In 1979, Hair and Hurricane were the first 35mm Dolby films to use a new surround matrix.

In 1987, Innerspace and Robocop were the first Dolby SR releases. In 1990, Robocop II was the 100th Dolby SR release.

In June 1992, Batman Returns was the first Dolby Digital release.
 
Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-30-2003, 09:17 PM:
 
Star Trek VI was a test run for Dolby Digital on some prints.
 
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-30-2003, 10:18 PM:
 
quote:
According to my notes (but sources long forgotten), A Star is Born, not Logan's Run was probably the first 70mm film with Dolby NR, since A Star is Born was released first (right?)
Wrong. LOGAN'S RUN was released in June, 1976 and A STAR IS BORN in December, 1976.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-31-2003, 12:10 PM:
 
Here is a link to the cinephoto uk site with a picture of the the first cp100 that was insalled for Tommy
http://www.cinephoto.co.uk/leicester_square_theatre_8.htm
 
Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-31-2003, 02:24 PM:
 
Gordon McLeod wrote:

quote:
Here is a link to the cinephoto uk site with a picture of the the first cp100 that was insalled for Tommy
http://www.cinephoto.co.uk/leicester_square_theatre_8.htm]
Why was a Dolby cinema processor used for a Quintaphonic presentation of Tommy? Wasn't DBX used on the Quintaphonic version, rather than Dolby? The liner notes in the Tommy DVD describe Quintaphonic as having "used DBX while other sets used Dolby A or no noise reduction at all."

Also, the link that leads to a photo of the Odeon Leicester Square's Dolby CP100 includes text that mentions Quintaphonic as being a 4-track format. Quintaphonic was also described earlier in this thread as a 4-track format, yet in neither case was an explanation given as to the function of the fourth track. My understanding of Quintaphonic is that the five channels were matrix-encoded onto three tracks. So what was the fourth track for?

Also, no one has offered an explanation for my question about how it was possible that a 70mm version of Tommy could've had split surrounds prior to the introduction of split surround or what type of processor would be required or how the channel layout was handled on the print. Gordon??? Anyone???

.

Martin Brooks wrote:
quote:
By the end of 1977, the year of Star Wars, Dolby reported that 30 films had been released in Dolby formats (12 for that year.)
Another interesting Dolby-related stat is that prior to the booking of Star Wars (spring 1977) there were only about two dozen theatres in the world equipped for Dolby Stereo playback. (There were another two dozen mono systems installed throughout Canada which have not been included in these figures.) Following/during the booking of Star Wars, the total rose to just over 50. By the end of the run of Star Wars in September 1978, the worldwide Dolby installation number exceeded 700.

.

Jeffry Johnson contributed:
quote:
Film Sound History: 70's
Motion Picture Sound 1930-1989
Interesting...but only as an overview. Both articles are riddled with errors and fall short of being definitive accounts of the subject.

"The only other releases in [mag stereo with Dolby noise reduction] included The Song Remains The Same and Nashville." Hardly.

"Star Wars released in 46 U.S. theatres equipped for Dolby Stereo." The number was lower than 46 (though in fairness to the article's author(s) that figure was likely sourced from Dolby's company chronology. I have a theory on why 46 was quoted, but I won't bore you guys with it. [Smile] )

Release dates incorrect on Apocalypse Now, Return Of The Jedi, Jurassic Park and Last Action Hero.

[ 08-31-2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Michael Coate ]
 
Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-31-2003, 02:33 PM:
 
is it possable that the 70mm copies of Tommy had the quadrophonic track recorded on it. Basically only four tracks two front two rear. Just a thought.

From what I understand about quadrophonic sound at least from a music recording situation it was supposed to be set up with four speakers. they could have a recorded sound that could move from the front left pan all the way around to the back left.

Someone told me years ago that the film THE CAR (1976) was the first movie tested with dolby stereo.
 
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-31-2003, 05:45 PM:
 
First point that isn't the Odeon Leicester Square but the Leicester Sq theatre a different animal all togather
DBX made a card that was a dirrect replacement for the CAT22 NR cards so I assume they were used and the matrix was the sansui QS matrix which was what DOlby used for there first surround decoders in the SA2

Quintaphonic matrixed left right front left back and right back on the left and right tracks and the surround track was a mono backup
They actually made a descrete processor that even did the amp switching as well

There were several other films that used DBX on the mag tracks as well
 
Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 08-31-2003, 06:19 PM:
 
Quite correct Gordon. We used the CAT22 NR for our run of Tommy at the Leicester Square Theatre.
 




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