Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Prevost P-70 ( Zeiss Favorit 70 ) restoration project. Updated.

This is topic Prevost P-70 ( Zeiss Favorit 70 ) restoration project. Updated. in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 09-16-2003, 06:15 PM:

It's been a while since I have posted here at Film-Tech, but I hope to hone my handling skills as well as contribute when I can.
I am glad to be associated with the members that take film presentation seriously.

I have a request in the equipment section regarding the Prevost P-70 a.k.a. the Zeiss Favorit 70 35/70mm projector and would like to hear from anyone familiar with these really great projectors.

Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated,such as upgrading for reverse scan,DTS or Dolby Digital.

After seeing one running 70mm in Canada, I just couldn't help myself and I just had to have one.

I now have one on the way, and could use a copy of a manual in english as I noticed that there isn't one in the manuals section.

Thanks in Advance,
Erick [Big Grin]

[ 02-27-2004, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Erick Akers ]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-16-2003, 07:47 PM:

Which one did you see running in canada
I don't have the manual anymore as a theatre owner scooped it
I mount the dts l bracket on the front of the penthouse and just pop the mag head out when running DTS and thread through the damper
great tracking that way
THere is no reverse scan but prevost has a dolby digital basement reader and laser optical scanner available

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 09-17-2003, 04:53 AM:

Hi Gordon,
Just the person I expected to reply [Smile]

Don't you just hate it when manuals grow legs and walk out? [Mad]

A friend by the name of James McNair, was kind enough to screen a 70mm film for me in his home.

Can't explain why, but I think I have a new favotite [thumbsup]

Anyway, I was impressed with the way that it ran.

I was told that they are built like a tank and have have the endurance of the Energizer Bunny.

Do you have any pictures to share?

Also, can you tell me what to look for in the way of wear & tear, leakage, and difficulties involved in a complete overhaul?

Don't get me wrong, a Century JJ running 70mm can be a thing of beauty, allthough I never owned one.

And like Brad, I once owned 2 DP-70's, and I have to agree with him, Totally Over Rated!!!

Sure, they are built like a tank, but it also takes the power of one to move it.

My guess is, not many Prevost projectors were sold here in the States, and that must be the reason why I didn't find much information about them here at Film-Tech.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-17-2003, 02:11 PM:

quote:
A friend by the name of James McNair, was kind enough to screen a 70mm film for me in his home.

And where are the pictures of this screening room?!?! [Smile]

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 09-17-2003, 03:55 PM:

I've got a one (and 1/2) of these laying around (Favorit 70s), but do not have the stuff to convert it to 70MM, so I have never done anything with it. Do you happen to know anyone who has the 70MM gate, pull down sproket, and the other goodies to make it run 70MM, that they might want to sell?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-17-2003, 05:23 PM:

ICECO has 3 of them in pieces

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 09-19-2003, 04:03 AM:

Hi Daryl,
James doesn't have a digital camera just yet, but I do believe that it would make a fine addition for the pictures section here.
Unfortunately, I forgot to pack mine on my last visit, I wont do that again.

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 11-21-2003, 10:26 PM:

UPDATE:

I Just took delivery of a matched pair of Zeiss Favorit 70's.

These babies have all of the bells and wistles for 35/70mm and fully equipped with all sound readers for magnetic and optical formats.

The only thing that they are missing, is the reel arms.

The information that I have on their history is that they were only in limited use for about 4 years and in storage for 30 years.

In Short, they are about as old as I am.

They are really going to need a thurough breakdown and cleaning, and I need help from all knowledgeable Film-Tech members that know these machines well.

I am seeking manuals for both the projectors and the pedistals, and I really need the mechanical and electrical diagrams for both.

I would love to have them up and running in 3 months or less, and with your help I believe that this could happen [Big Grin]

Gordon, I could also use your help [thumbsup]

I would also like to post some pictures of my progress in the gallary.

Thanks,

Erick

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-23-2003, 10:44 PM:

I still have no manuals though someone offered to make copies but they haven't arrived [Mad]

Xetron used to have adapeter plates to put reel arms on them

Where were these installed originally

Posted by Steven H. Krams (Member # 1461) on 11-24-2003, 07:41 PM:

Hello Fellows!

I think Erik purchased these from ICECO recently. If so these machines were purchased several years ago from Robert's Films in Montreal. At the time he indicated they came from the 1967 World's Fair.

I still have several of the 35 mm machines in the warehouse. a few years ago They were purchased by Richard Fowler and then came back to us a few months ago.

In any event Richard Probably knows more about them then I do.

Good Luck!
Steven Krams
International Cinema Equipment
Miami

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 11-24-2003, 08:53 PM:

Steven,
Thanks for filling in the blanks on the history for me. [thumbsup]

There you have it Gordon! [Big Grin]

The pedestals are tagged as "Atlantic Film Service"

Progress is being made, and I am taking pictures along the way.

These things are kind of grungy, but they are cleaning up remarkably well.

Underneath all of the grime, is a Beautiful
Silver Crackle Paint Finish.

O.K.

Where's Richard?

Paging Mr. Fowler, Please come to the Prevost P-70 thread. [Big Grin]

As always all help is appreciated very much.

Erick.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-24-2003, 09:54 PM:

Atlantic Audio Visual was the Zeis Importer for many years and as such a fair bit of Prevost and Wassman got imported as well by them

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-24-2003, 10:34 PM:

P-70. The units I had where to satisfy the requirements for a Latin American client. I sourced some from Bob Troop, Steve Krams and others. The client then switched into another brand after his mechanic retired. One of my cinemas in the mid 1970's had P-70's and I remember creating a serviceable P-70 out of three incomplete frames ( + installing a decent electrical ground ) so I could finish a Dolby Digital installation in Argentina....for a former client of that Steve and I both
love [evil]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-25-2003, 03:16 PM:

Welcome to Film-Tech, Mr. Krams! [Cool]

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 11-26-2003, 11:22 AM:

I got two (more like one and a half) of the 70's from ICECO in Miami a couple of years ago, but they do not come with what is needed to convert them to 70MM (gate, pull down sproket, mag head, etc.), so I have never done anything with them. I would still love to find the stuff needed to convert them to 70MM. I was down in Miami for another reason, so I picked up the projectors, but did not have room for the bases. Are the bases still there Steve?

Posted by Giorgio Volpi (Member # 1182) on 11-26-2003, 01:32 PM:

If you need to contact Prevost factory directly send an email to:
attilio.prevost@prevostsrl.it (Ing. Attilio Prevost)
paolo.prevost@prevostsrl.it (Ing. Paolo Prevost)

Regards,
Giorgio Volpi
Prevost Italia

Posted by Steven H. Krams (Member # 1461) on 11-30-2003, 03:50 PM:

The bases are still in the warehouse. If you want them now would be a good time to collect them as I will likely sell the building in the coming year and would hate to put them in the dumpster if they are of any use to you or someone else.

Good luck on the restoration.

PS we have a good relationship with Paulo Prevost at the factory in Milan Italy . If you require something let me know.

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 12-04-2003, 11:12 PM:

Hi Guys and Gals,

Moving steadily along, Kicking Much Arse and Taking Many Pictures Along The Way!

Just ran into my first mechanical problem. Posted below is a picture of the outer portion of the sound drum on machine #2.

As you can see, it is slightly dimpled on the Eastern & Western edges.

Please note, item was previously removed and packed separately in a box containing all of the goodies. The tarnish indicated to me that a previous owner;

not Steven, [Smile]

had some difficulty removing it,
guess they never heard of DMSO.

Anyway; If it is soft enough to dimple like this, I am hoping that the dimples could be rolled or expanded from the inside, where it could once again have full contact with the film edge.

Would any of our wonderful Film Tech machinist or mechanics, like Mr. Mueller, or Mr. Gulbrandsen care to take a stab at it?

Is there some type of flat roller bearing expander type of hand tool for large pipe possibly?

Thanks,

Erick

Redited for a clearer description, and a better disposition.
Must be the Winter Blues!!!

[ 12-05-2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: Erick Akers ]

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-05-2003, 09:00 AM:

The problem on that particular part is that it was hardened and ground (usually). When you harden things they get brittle. So expanding the dents outwards and then regrinding for smoothness might result in cracks. Grinding alone would be espensive. I'd say it would be cheaper to get another one rather than try to repair that one, even if you could. Sorry
[Frown]

PS
If you try to repair it and get to the point where you want to have it ground, you need to do with it's shaft attached so it will all run true in it's bearings

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-05-2003, 07:19 PM:

The proper way to repair it would be to have both end bells hard chromed to a thickness that would be enough to allow a re-grind between centers on the original shaft. This would get rid of the dimples. If you can live with a little deeper groove than a clean up grinding would also take care of that, but its a matter of how far things protrude from behind it so nonthing ends up running the film. When we rebuild any sound reproducer we always have a clean up grind between centers done on the sound drums film supporting surface. Superior Grinding in Salt Lake City has always done a really good job for us and although not cheap to do its also not super expensive. We also have them do a plunge grind on the DP-70 sound drums as the BACP reader LED mount requires a slightly wider groove..... BTW: The DP-70 has one very hard sound drum.... about RC 60 and a plunge grind is the only way to widen a groove in metal that hard. We only believe that the the highest quality work will result in a happy customer. Also, you definately do not want a highly polished supporting surface for the film as the film may simply slip past the drum. If this happens you'd end up with excessive flutter. The Christie sound drum is a prime example of how not to make a sound drum. Overly polished and then they attempted to correct the problem by adding those stupid "O" rings to increase the stiction and cause the drum to rotate at the proper speed...... Totally stupid!

Another consideration with the older Prevost and Shakeamecannicca machines is the width of the area for the film to lay down in. You will find on older machines that its a bit wider than 35mm and you have quite a bit of side weave of the track. This is bad for good stereo decoding. Shakeamecannicca offered new "stereo" drums for their machines to minimize the side weave. If the P-70 is still in production Prevost may offer the same thing. If you're serious about really making everything on these machines correct then new drums are in order. If the new drums are not available then thats also something that might be done during an overplating and re-grind operation.

Also one point in mind. Many European machines sound drums are made from brass and then plated with hard chrome. This may be why the dimples are so bad in this particuluar one. The Brass was to alow it to be as non-magnetic as was possible while still giving good wearing surface for the film to run on. If these were really hardened steel then there would not be dimples in the drums that large unless someone hit it with a hammer.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-05-2003, 11:50 PM:

Most of the problems I had with P-70 involved the sound drum and intermittent sprocket. Flutter due to dimpled drum and sprocket short life with mylar film. Newer designed replacement parts should solve this.

Posted by Erick Akers (Member # 875) on 02-26-2004, 11:31 PM:

Yeah,
I know it's been a while since I have updated this post,
but I thought that it was time that I fill everyone in on my continued progress.

As some of you know,

A WANTED POSTER:

Seeking some OEM reel arms & magazines to help me complete my project,

And Thanks again to Brad & F-T,
not only did I find exactly what I was looking for, but I also found enough spair parts to keep me running for many years to come.

Brad,
I will be sending the single side copies of the Tech manuals for a new addition to library. ( sorry it took so long to get them done, but they will be on the way this weekend [Wink]

)

Bruce,

I may have even found what you're seeking, If you are still interested, please get back with me by e mail and I'll
let you know more when I receive an update on the inventory of spair parts.

And yes, I have taken more pictures and will be sending them to Brad for the Picture Album.

At this time I would also like to thank every one who has taken their time to help me locate everything I was looking for.

If it wasn't for Film-Tech, this project may very well have taken me years to complete. As is, It looks like I will be able to come well within my origional projected time frame!!! [Big Grin]

Thanks Film-Tech!!! [thumbsup]

"The ARSE KICKER!!!"

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-27-2004, 06:37 PM:

When, oh when, will we get to see some pix ?