Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Flattening a print

This is topic Flattening a print in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-29-2003, 12:49 AM:

Here's a question in relation to the Horizontal Scratches thread. If a print happens to be uneven on a platter (I see this a lot after a print has been moved), should it just be left that way so as not to scratch it? (I assume there would be no harm in playing it like that, I just wanted to check.)

[ 09-29-2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Ken Lackner ]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-29-2003, 01:21 AM:

I'd hazard a guess that the print is winding unevenly for one of three reasons: (i) polyester static issues, (ii) shrunken acetate or (iii) other physical damage, e.g. strained perfs.

With a static-ed up poly print I used to find that spending a couple of days reversing its orientation on each run (i.e. take it up base out on one show, then emulsion out on the next and so on) would often calm it down. With shrunken acetate I'd just keep it base out on the platter to stretch it out a bit. If it's physically damaged there isn't too much you can do about it: just take care when handling the made-up platter roll for any reason (e.g. moving it) to avoid causing any edge damage.

There is certainly no harm that I can think of in feeding from an unevenly wound roll just as long as it's reasonably tight and the film isn't sitting so high that it rubs against the top of the platter's feed unit as it passes through.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 09-29-2003, 01:35 AM:

I'd leave it that way and run it. Attempting to even out the wind only risks cinch marks or scratching. Of course, if moving the print caused the unevenness in the first place, the damage is probably already done. [Frown]

Posted by Robert D. LaValley (Member # 1867) on 09-29-2003, 07:04 PM:

I've heard with loosely wound prints you can just skip a roller and the platters elevator to put added tension to tighten up a print. as for prints looking odd after moving them I think this happens to everyone on thursdays unless they have a killer platter system that wraps them tight as pucks... (this I have seen)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-29-2003, 11:04 PM:

In most cases, an uneven wind should be left as is, and just monitored to avoid a jam. As noted, the cause should be determined and fixed.

If you receive a really loose roll of film, NEVER pull the end to tighten it, or attempt to flatten it, which are almost certain to cause cinch marks. Best procedure is use relatively low tension on the feed roll, and provide back tension by running the film on a sprocket with some drag, such as a film counter or syncronizer. Or just provide a bit of back tension by gently cupping the film edges between your fingers. You want to avoid having the loose convolutions rubbing against each other.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 09-30-2003, 08:52 AM:

Usually when we move a print and it's really lose, once we get it on the platter we try to "pat it down" into a reasonable "flatness". Of course, you don't want to sit there pounding on the print to try and get it as flat as if it rewound there, but you don't want any oversized humps in it either.

But if your platters are winding tight like they should, you wouldn't have this problem. [Wink]

=TMP=

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 09-30-2003, 03:39 PM:

ok, patting down is something that i was taught to do but stopped doing for the above concerns and seeing that even with some unevenness the print still has enough traction not to go flying.

but the underlying problem is still one that i'd like to see go away. one of our platters (aw3, non-removable brain, black rollers, i believe u-shaped legs) just takes up way loose. is this simply a matter of timing the platter? i've never done that but i could suggest it to mr. union guy. the fact the brain isn't removable (without extra work) exacerbates the problem. lifting the print over the brain is guaranteed to put a lump in the print. especially as i have to do it alone, although even with 2 it is unavoidable.

carl

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-30-2003, 03:54 PM:

Thomas,
Never pat down a print. You are only taking a risk at scratching it. Since platters pay out with zero tension on the film from the center of the roll (unlike running reel to reel from a loosely wound roll), there is no damage risk of just leaving a print unlevel while it pays out.

Carl,
I have a $2 fix for your loose wind problem on the older AW3 platters. I've been meaning to make a tips page out of it. I'll try to put that as more of a priority.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 09-30-2003, 04:20 PM:

Yeah, Brad -- I'm waiting for this tip.

I've got about 6 or so of the AW3-R (both "V" and "U" legs) with a loose-wind problem.

Hurry! Hurry! [thumbsup]

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 09-30-2003, 07:58 PM:

Moving a print and having it uneven isn't a problem. Having a loose wound print with static has been a problem as several layers pull out uneven and create a huge bulge.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 10-02-2003, 12:23 PM:

Brad -- Sometimes it's necessary to do that, especially if the center ring still needs to be situated. I wouldn't be concerned with the print getting any more scratched than when it was being moved and was sagging all over the place, cinch-scratching itself anyway. It's a problem with one (or two) of our platters that we're in the process of fixing. OTOH, most of them wind it tight enough to move a 4-hour epic by yourself! [uhoh]

=TMP=

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 10-03-2003, 03:16 AM:

i don't see why it would be necessary for situating the center ring.

oddly enough, i just saw some damage today in underworld that i think i can attribute to patting down, if not to the underlying slippage that resulted in unevenness. a couple seconds in reel 5 featured some green hashmarks on the extreme right side, very noticeable in such a dark movie. let's have that tip, brad.

carl