Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Anything Else -- Shedding problems

This is topic Anything Else -- Shedding problems in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 09-30-2003, 03:48 PM:

After one week run on Anything Else we are having a bad shedding problem with the print. We used Film-Guard on several runs but it has no control of the problem. After every show I am cleaning yellowish white powder from the intermittent and lower gears. I even applied F/G on the intermittent shoe with a Q-tip. But it does not solve it. Hope this print leaves before I start shoveling the stuff out the booth.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-30-2003, 03:58 PM:

Projector make?
Platter make?
Is the film scratched in any way?
How did you apply FilmGuard?
If you used media pads and a cleaning machine, what brand of pads did you use and what frequency?

I really don't see this as being a cyan dye track issue. I think somewhere along the line you had something abrasive in the film chain (or a misthread) and that started your problem.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 09-30-2003, 04:09 PM:

I've had this happen before on several occasions, most recently with SINBAD. The problem was just as you describe and in that case FilmGuard did not stop the shedding. This was a major shedding problem with about a teaspoonful (5g) of residue left behind after each screening.

I cleaned the whole projector with a vacuum cleaner and also cleaned the pressure bands in the gate in case there was a burr causing the emulsion to scrape off. Alas, nothing worked and the operators just had to keep cleaning that machine moreso than the others.

Frankly, I think the film was defective but I can't swear to it since I never did a close reel-by-reel analysis (it would be odd for all the reels to be off like that).

In that case, the problem went away when the movie got downgraded to one of the smaller theatres. By then, I guess it had done all of its shedding.

Near as I could tell the image itself had not been scratched but the SRD track was definitely toast. I don't use SDDS here so I don't know if that was destroyed but that would be my guess.

As for the projector where the shedding was originally observed there were no problems with subsequent movies.

Posted by Lauren Fisher (Member # 1905) on 10-05-2003, 02:48 PM:

this may be late in coming but when we had anything else in our theatre it shedded. in fact it was so bad that it looked like a dust storm came through the projector head.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-05-2003, 03:09 PM:

Everyone, PLEASE list what kind of projector you have. Without being specific, notations like this do not help the situation much. It could be an issue with a certain projector.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-05-2003, 06:49 PM:

For what it's worth, I had no problems at all with this title (Simplex PR-1014).

It's been quite a while since I've seen any real shedding issues on any prints. B&W ESTAR-base prints seem(ed) to be the worst, but I haven't had any trouble with those lately, either (using mostly Simplex X-L/PR-1014 and Century C or SA heads). I am assuming that there have been significant improvements in film stock and lab techniques in the last five years or so. Or maybe I'm just getting fewer abused prints now.

Posted by Jesse August (Member # 1798) on 10-05-2003, 07:14 PM:

Might be a film stock issue.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-05-2003, 07:42 PM:

I have had this problem on a Simplex where the gate was too tight (not the bands). The stop screw on the trap was in the wrong position.

Posted by Liam Utley (Member # 1931) on 10-05-2003, 09:18 PM:

I work at a 10 plex running all Cinemeccanica Vic 5's with curved gates, and one projector in particular sheds more frequently than others. I haven't found the cause, and it does not shed every film that it runs, so it is hard to identify the problem.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-06-2003, 10:35 AM:

Kodak VISION Color Print Films have a transparent scratch-resistant conductive anti-static polymeric coating on the back side of the film. Compared to the polyester films of about 5 years ago, they have much better resistance to projector abrasion.

For optimum projection life, Kodak still recommends proper lubrication of release prints, per SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 151. Print lubrication is part of the ECP-2D process specifications:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h242/h2402_04.shtml#164364

The fact that you are seeing shedding even after the additional lubrication provided by a film treatment like FilmGuard points to a projector issue, such as a burr or rough spot on a film contacting component (gate, intermittent sprocket shoe), or excessive gate tension.