Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Start Cues

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-11-2003, 02:19 PM:

In this thread we briefly discussed the importance of having start cues. I've never worked with any automation that has this feature. Can someone please list the automations that they are aware of that use start cues?

Posted by Michael Cunningham (Member # 210) on 10-11-2003, 03:38 PM:

Component Engineering's TA-10 uses one in 'Interlock' mode. You could disconnect the interlocking cables between projectors and use each projector's Interlock mode alone to have a 'Start Cue'. Leaving the cabling intact would, of course, mean multiple projectors starting when you hit one Start button...not good, heh.

- Mike

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-11-2003, 03:40 PM:

Definitely the Christie/Pennywise CA-21 can take a start cue -- or you could go with a timed sequence.

I was a little freaked out by the name "Pennywise" because of the expression "penny wise, pound foolish" but I have to say that the CA-21 is the *best* automation I've seen so far...and the folks at Pennywise in Australia gave excellent customer service via phone and email. They even made customized EPROM's for me (see below).

From a setup standpoing it is very flexible and yet it is incredibly simple to use.

I'm a little hazy on the details (this was nearly a decade ago) but I think the Strong automation we were using back in Pasadena had the capability to take a start cue (but we went with a timed sequence). I believe that one was the CNA-10. Not 100% sure about that number tho.

About those EPROM's -- The Christie/Pennywise CA-21 has two programmable Function buttons. I decided to designate them for one-touch "Interrupt" and "Resume" sequencing. I defined the routines and Pennywise programmed the new EPROM's and mailed them out to me.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-11-2003, 03:48 PM:

Nothing, absolutely nothing beats the CA21.

Kinoton's EMK1 automation is nothing more than the CA21 repackaged with Kinoton's pre-programmed EPROM.

Christie has a simple 3 or 4 cue automation system that can accept a start cue, but I can't remember the model number.

UA's "B" generation laser barcode automations have a start cue.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-11-2003, 04:02 PM:

The older cinemecanica mechanical timer automation could be programmed for a start cue
The TA 10 would require the data buss disconnected if you wanted to use the interlock function for a start cue

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-12-2003, 01:49 AM:

Manny, even though I'm not familiar with the Strong automation you're refering to, I think you mean the CPA-10. There is no
CNA-10. (There's a CNA-100, 150, and 200.)

So basically just Pennywise and Kinoton, and CE if you do not want interlocking? Is disconnecting and reconnecting the interlock cable something that could be done if you decide you want to interlock a show?

The strong CNA-150 (and I presume the other CNA automations) use a start cue for interlocking. Could you just not connect the interlock cables as with the TA-10 and use the start cue?

Posted by Dave Callaghan (Member # 1544) on 10-12-2003, 02:43 AM:

The Famous Players version of the CineQ automation uses a start cue of sorts. The automation starts the projector and lamp based on a clock and showtimes held in memory. The first foil is just before the first “trailer” to hit the screen, simply to do the changeover.

The story I have heard is that the original CineQ ran a routine at startup that included the changeover. It required threading to a definite point in the leader. The managers and threading staff apparently could never get the hang of starting at the same point because they used the motor to run the film down, instead of turning the machine over by hand.

A problem that can crop up with a start cue is using the motor to run the film down and passing the cue. I saw this once on a tandem - the tandem cue was run past the sensor of the first machine. If I hadn't rethreaded, the show on the first machine would not have started / changed over until the Feature Presentation. Then the feature would have run with the house lights at half. And the program would have been out of sequence by one cue.

Of course this was a case of incompetent people. With proper training its possible to get good results with most any reasonably well thought out automation.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-12-2003, 02:46 AM:

The Strong BCA-10 has a start cue. I think this automation was pre "standard UA barcode", but it used the exact same cues as every other UA installation on the planet.

No automation should be without a start cue.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-12-2003, 03:08 AM:

quote:
A problem that can crop up with a start cue is using the motor to run the film down and passing the cue.

Aha, the mighty CA21 to the rescue!!! Simply figure out what the longest possible "run down" to the start cue from the threading point is in seconds. Then on the first line with "MOTOR ON", simply enter "DELAY X SECONDS". (Obviously if your maximum run down time is something like 40 seconds, you should set it to 50 or something along those lines.) That way should some doof thread past the start cue, once the delay time has counted down to 0, the CA21 will go ahead and start the show.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 10-12-2003, 04:12 AM:

quote:
Christie has a simple 3 or 4 cue automation system that can accept a start cue, but I can't remember the model number.

We use the Christie 3Q at my theatre. Very reliable and a breeze to operate.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-12-2003, 04:19 AM:

When the problem described by Brad occurred, we simply set the matrix to line 2 and pressed the manual motor start and the manual cue button.
Or, if the cue was still before the cue reader, but too close to it (the automation accepts only 1 cue within 4 seconds), we simply set the matrix to line 2 and started the motor.
We used to have clear leader with frame markings to thread, then 5 seconds black leader with the start cue on it. This way, it almost never happened that somebody thread up with the cue past the detector.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 10-12-2003, 01:52 PM:

Ken:

I was using those Strong automations around 1996 or so. It isn't any of the automations from the current line-up but it is closest to the CNA-150 in that it had a simple 2-Line LCD screen.

Can anyone provide some insight as to which automation this could've been? Was there ever a CNA-10 automation by Strong or Eprad?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 10-13-2003, 12:43 AM:

quote:
Can anyone provide some insight as to which automation this could've been? Was there ever a CNA-10 automation by Strong or Eprad?

As mentioned before, there was a CPA-10, but no CNA-10.

Did it look like this?

-Aaron

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 10-13-2003, 06:36 AM:

The SMART Showmation uses a start cue. On a film break and re-start, there is a 7 second delay until the douser opens.

The Panalogic CA2000 automation can use a start cue or a start timer (which can be set to any number of seconds you want), either of which is easily programmable.