Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: FILMGUARDING films before mastering to DVD

This is topic FILMGUARDING films before mastering to DVD in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 10-18-2003, 08:38 AM:

If you are like me, you hire out DVD's, mainly for the extras,
even if quality of the extras suck (ie deleted scenes)

BUT the feature itself is often rotten, looks like its had at least 2 runs at a Hoyts or about 300 runs in a proper place.

Sometimes even films that are only a few years old are terrible.
(You know the black specks all over the place from Christie projectors or the base scratches from Cinemecannicas)

What if.....

A film company mastered a film to DVD, then that same film was
cleaned with filmguard then mastered to DVD and compare the difference.

Surely its going to look MUCH better.

Anyone else disappointed with the reproduction of some DVD's???

Bill.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-18-2003, 12:02 PM:

Is this an issue with low budget films on DVD? I ask because the few DVDs I have seen have all been very clean and obviously mastered from the camera negative or one step from it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2003, 12:27 PM:

Telecine chains like the Rank Ursa gold and the likes can have no wet content or oils on the film or it will destabalise the ruber guidence rollers

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-18-2003, 12:29 PM:

Gord.. it'll do what to the rollers?

[Wink]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2003, 01:07 PM:

First the film will slip causing a rolling frame line
And if there is any trace of any petroleum based substance on the rollers after about a day they willstart to develop a form of rot
Rank and Bauch both had a warranty escape clause over oils and the likes on prints run on them
Most of the transfer houses here ultrasonicaly clean the prints before tranfer more to protect the telecine than clean the content

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-18-2003, 03:20 PM:

Can I also use FilmGuard on my DVDs?

Posted by Travis Hubrig (Member # 1745) on 10-18-2003, 03:46 PM:

Michael,

The first few times you run the DVD, you may notice slight
streaking, It will go away with use.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 10-18-2003, 03:59 PM:

The use of FilmGuard on DVDs was discussed here, where John Lasher finally corrected the spelling of the state he lives in.

Posted by Jeff Joseph (Member # 511) on 10-19-2003, 01:34 PM:

We frequently transfer dirty/scratchy film (mostly old trailers). We used to use TomaCote (no longer available, but similar to FilmGuard) to act as a wet gate before telecine. But transfer houses got very very nervous for the reasons stated above, so we no longer do this.

Fortunately, there is still ONE transfer facility that uses a chemical wet gate on their Rank, so that's where we send all our work. (It's "Film and Video Transfer", in Cangoa Park, California.) He a person who owns his own Rank and is willing to take the risk to his equipment.

Jeff Joseph
SabuCat Productions

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-19-2003, 02:10 PM:

For telecine work Hydro Naptha works well at removing any oil based reidue and dirt
The SanLab SpectraClean works well with it

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-20-2003, 09:32 AM:

The very diffuse xenon illumination provided by the Kodak-designed and built optics on the Thomson Spirit DataCine is very effective in reducing the visibility of any surface imperfections on the film during transfer:

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/film/spirit/stick_desc.html

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/film/spirit/stick_desc.html

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/products/film/spirit_4k/

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 10-20-2003, 02:21 PM:

With all respect to Jeff, Gordon and John.

I think My original question was lost.

Brad, I taking MAINSTREAM wide release BIG budget movies movies. (Mainly)

I mostly only hire the DVDs and only have bothered buying a few.

SE = Collectors Edition or Special Edition or Limited Edition (They should just stick with Special Edition)

Leaving out the kids DVD's (Spiderman CE, X-men, Shrek etc etc)

All I have is Close Encounters SE, Superman SE, Superman 2 Dodgy Edition!!, Supergirl LE, Abyss SE, The Terminator SE and THIS IS SPINAL TAP(SE) Oh and LIFE of BRIAN.

I cant remember which annoyed me enough to bring subject up, but I think Almost all of the one's I own made me wonder...

WOULD the same print copied to DVD by the studio or who ever does it, look as good as one cleaned up by filmguard first.

To everyone just go to Blockbuster and hire a bunch of weekies that are only a few year old, and watch closely.

Reviewers talk of artifacts, I watch more for the black spots (I wonder if film guard could also remove the negative white spots, however I think not)

Bill.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-20-2003, 02:38 PM:

Most video transfers are now made from pre-print elements, usually a timed master positive or duplicate negative. Release prints are almost never used for video transfers.

The elements are cleaned prior to being put on the telecine, and there is also on-line cleaning. A rare dirt particle on a master positive would create a black shadow image, dirt on a duplicate negative would show up as a white speck. Even if some dirt images get through in the transfer, they are often removed in post production and mastering:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/mastering.shtml

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-21-2003, 07:24 AM:

Almost all of the DVDs that I have, about forty now, are very good transfers, even on the older films. The oldest one I have is 42nd Street, and they have managed to find very good elements for the transfer. The only exceptions to this are not feature films; the odd trailer which has obviously been transferred from an old print, I assume that they couldn't find anything better, and some older television material, which was originated either on a compoite PAL tape format, or on old VNF. Sorry, there is one feature film, but not a conventional one, 'Bowling for Columbine', but you wouldn't expect high image quality, considering the type of material included in this film, i.e. news and security camera material.

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 10-21-2003, 01:27 PM:

Just a enquiry to my Aussie colleagues.
Is Film Guard used by anyone in Australian cinemas, as I would imagine the price down under would tend to be quite costly after shipping and exchange rates.
John Spooner, Adelaide.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-21-2003, 01:32 PM:

Isn't Panalogic Corporation Pty. Ltd. in Castle Hill NSW Australia a dealer?:

http://www.film-tech.com/filmcleaning/filmguard3.html

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-26-2003, 06:01 PM:

John,

Panalogic is indeed the Australian/New Zealand distributor.

The Randwick Ritz and the Valhalla in Sydney are using it. Panalogic were doing an install down south somewhere recently with a Kelmar cleaner and Filmguard.

John

Posted by Bill Langfield (Member # 818) on 10-28-2003, 07:11 AM:

Hey, John Spooner (long time no chat!)

We only use it only to edge wipe prints that leave that white dust all through the projector at the moment, it fixes the problem after just a few runs.

The bottles cost about $75-$80 cant remember exactly

John Wilson failed to mention that he uses the full cleaning system, which we will be using soon.

We are looking into getting just a couple of systems and making them 'moveable' to any given booth for trouble-some prints.

Ray did send a basic quote, I forwarded to work, but have lost the original quote he sent.

I intend (and been meaning to do so for over a year) to speak to John Wilson of the costs of using it over a year, so it can be budget approved.

Bill.