Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: SMPTE goes CCW or CW?

This is topic SMPTE goes CCW or CW? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 11-04-2003, 04:58 PM:

When the SMPTE leader counts down the sweeping clock hand turns CCW....correct? I've seen it 80 zillion times, but now that someone asked me and I don't have one here to look at I'm second guessing myself.

Thanks,
Larry

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-04-2003, 05:58 PM:

The SMPTE Universal Leader sweeps clockwise.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-05-2003, 06:48 AM:

NO!

The SMPTE leader sweeps CCW! It is counting DOWN not up.

Steve

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-05-2003, 07:24 AM:

It's always amusing when a simulated countdown is shown within some tv program or movie and they feel the need to extend it to count down to "1" and "0".

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-05-2003, 08:06 AM:

From Standard SMPTE 55-2000:

quote:
Frames 28-50 — Continuation of visual count-down,
beginning with a clear figure “8" on a black background
and a clear clock arm extending vertically from
the center to the top of the frame. In each succeeding
frame, the clock arm shall rotate clockwise from the
center of the frame in 15-degree increments of film running time.

Question: Are any distributors / labs routinely still using the SMPTE Universal (SMPTE 55-2000 "Clock") leader? For 35mm release prints, the current standard is the leader specified by SMPTE 301-1999:

quote:
1 Scope
This standard specifies the make-up or assembly of
leaders and cue marks for 70-, 35-, and 16-mm
motion-picture release prints for use in motion-picture
theaters and screening rooms.

SMPTE 35-PL (SMPTE 301-1999) Projection Leader master:

http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/test_materials/

[ 11-05-2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: John Pytlak ]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-05-2003, 09:38 AM:

Damit! Now I have to go watch the thing myself...I'd swear (and I did just a few words ago) that it spun CCW. Now mind you...it isn't something I generally run...just on dailies and when screening a reel.

In the meantime...here is a web page that almost follows the standard...it starts at "4"

http://www.thecolonialtheatre.com

Steve

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-05-2003, 09:48 AM:

Black background? I thought it was supposed to be some specific shade of grey which was useful for setting up some specific model of film-chain camera that was popular in the 1960s and 1970s. Most of these leaders seem to either have grey backgrounds, anyway, since the numbers themselves are black.

I should have made MPEG captures of various types of leaders last week when I had to rent a Digi-Beta deck that would also play back Beta SP tapes (which is the format in which I have recordings of film leaders). Oh, well....

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-05-2003, 10:16 AM:

Scott:

I've often seen the countdown clock leader printed with a gray or colored background, but SMPTE 55-2000 does specify "black background" and "black density" for the clock syncronizing section and run-up. This leader used to be called "Universal" leader, since it had been intended for both theatrical and television prints, but it is now specifically intended for "Television Release Prints". The leader specified by SMPTE 301 should be used for theatrical release prints.

Steve:

Maybe you were looking at the clock in the projector gate, rather than on the screen. [Wink]

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-05-2003, 10:32 AM:

John

Fotokem uses the SMPTE leader on it's 35mm release prints.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-05-2003, 10:42 AM:

Much of Foto-Kem's work is for television release, but they also do answer prints and some release prints.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 11-05-2003, 11:31 AM:

Last time I saw a countdown leader on screen, I was too concerned with why it was on screen to notice what direction it was turning. [Embarrassed]

Looking at a couple of 1570 leaders, I see that they turn clockwise. Typically in 1570, only reel one and trailers will have a full 8-second leader ... subsequent reels get countdowns that start with the last 13 frames of "4".

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 11-05-2003, 04:47 PM:

Steve -- I thought you projected every frame! [Wink]

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 11-05-2003, 11:51 PM:

quote:
Question: Are any distributors / labs routinely still using the SMPTE Universal (SMPTE 55-2000 "Clock") leader? For 35mm release prints, the current standard is the leader specified by SMPTE 301-1999:

I've run 8 or 10 with the clock leader in the last 6 months. I have misplaced my notebook (which disturbs me), so can't give the titles or labs. I'm not comfortable trying to guess from the schedules. These were prints I'd guess 2 or less years old, & most had been plattered previously. I don't like the clock leader.

One or two had the clock leader not black & white but black & dark amber, sort of contrasty.

quote:
Much of Foto-Kem's work is for television release, but they also do answer prints and some release prints.

I don't remember if these two titles had the clock leader, but I ran two horror movie titles that were famous for being gory eye-popping saturated Technicolor. Inspecting them, they had MUCH longer additional leaders of opaque lime-green, & the prints were washed-out looking. I wondered if they'd been duped, but onscreen they were very low-contrast but not really soft. They looked bad. They'd been run a time or more before; the leaders & tails were cut with ID frames. They were in 2,000 cans on cores, & in the last can was a note (from a lab I believe) reading "Clean for video". I bet it was a low contrast print for video transfer, & had been sent to theaters afterwards, possibly as the newest or best print by folks who didn't understand the difference.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-07-2003, 09:24 PM:

quote:
I don't like the clock leader.

NOBODY who works in a projection booth likes the clock leader. [Razz]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-07-2003, 10:39 PM:

I have no objection to it. What's the problem?