This is topic 16mm Victor Animatophone Model 60 Projector in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Richard Thomas (Member # 1815) on 11-12-2003, 04:32 PM:
 
Can anyone who knows old Victors tell me if this Model 60 has a tube or solid state audio system? Any other info on this old guy will help: anyone know how well it handles film, especially shrinkage?
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-12-2003, 05:34 PM:
 
Tube. The pull-down shuttle is two pin so missing perforations may jump....no worse than a Kodak Pagent. film trip levers maybe too sensitive for some people. The sound scanner area is a curved gate which the film glides across prior to the sound damping flywheel; this should be kept clean.
 

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Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 11-12-2003, 05:34 PM:
 
Despite their strange looking film path, the animatophones were excellent film handlers. One of the things I liked about them was the automatic cutout, which shut the transport mechanism totally down if a loop was lost. You had to really work at damaging a film with one of them. I could be wrong, but I think that all of them had tube amps.
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-12-2003, 06:12 PM:
 
Jump on over to www.film-center.com and buy the "Equipment Manuals" cd rom. All Victors and Kalart-Victors thread the same and there is the threading diagrams on the cd rom. If you need the service manual, I have an excellent original one covering the models 40 thru 60. It's very detailed and has schematics for the amplifiers (they are all tubes). The service manual runs around 140 pages!
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-12-2003, 06:50 PM:
 
I've got 6 Victors. 40's thru 70-25. All are good film handlers, and YES, you gotta keep the sound optics spotless.

Fine machines!
 

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Posted by Richard Thomas (Member # 1815) on 11-12-2003, 08:07 PM:
 
Thank you very much for the replies. I really appreciate the information. I have a great film collection under restoration and the usual Eiki's but no Victor. So now I have been offered one finally 50 years later and now thanks to you understand it is a great machine. Perfect! Ken, I would love to buy your service manual as the machine may need re-capping, and loving care. And Bruce I know you are a collector like I am and when you say you like them I do understand what that means.

Thanks all!

RL

[ 11-12-2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Richard Thomas ]
 

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Posted by Webster Colcord (Member # 1955) on 11-13-2003, 03:45 PM:
 
While you're on the subject of 16mm projectors, I have always been a fan of the Kodak Pageant and I just recently purchased one with a Gemini Arc lamp. The lamps are still being made, so I thought it might be better to purchase this one than a projector that uses the Marc 300. Has anyone had any negative/ positive experience with this projector/ lamp combination?
 

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Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 11-13-2003, 07:27 PM:
 
The Pageants are nice machines. I am also a big fan of the Victor. The loop failsafes are a great thing, especially when running an older, rougher print.

My favorite 16mm machine in my own collection is a Victor with a cute little carbon arc lamphouse. I'll try to get around to taking some pics to post.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 11-17-2003, 08:36 AM:
 
Having had any number of "vintage" 16mm projectors through the years I can happily trade nostalgia for a xenon Eiki, but I have to say that compared to the Pageants, Victors, B&H's, and DeVry's, I have always felt that the standout older machine was the RCA 400. In terms of gentleness, easy threading, wide open construction, and great sound they were tops. Anyone who's tried to work on a Pageant would shoot themselves if they saw how easily the RCA's come apart for service.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-17-2003, 08:32 PM:
 
The RCA 400's ROCK! I've got 3 of them. The oldest one was built in 1946, and was bought for $25 about 15 years ago. A single capacitor was replaced in the amp. It's been running film for me ever since.

I got my first Victor 40 as a gift in 1999. I grew up seeing ads for them in the National Geographic Magazines that my grandparents had. After a few hours of maintenance, the 40 was running film.

I guess I was hooked after that.

My Favorite Victor is my 70-15 from 1961-62. It was gotten on eBay to be a parts machine. The seller said that it didn't run other than the motor spinning. No problem. In shipping, it got dropped and the reel arms were destroyed along with all of the tubes. I sat it on the shelf for parts.

Then: I got some reel arms.

All of the tubes were in my junk boxes.

As it sits, it is the most quiet running of all of my 16mm machines. Now, my other 70 could be parts...

I just KNEW the Animatophone had to be a fine machine. I noticed them in the 'Geographic,' and figured that anything with a threading path that threads sound first can't be all bad!

I use this machine as part of a pair of 70's that I rent out now and then. The other 70 has a brush-type motor and runs with more noise.

Also have a pair of 40's, and a pair of 65-10's from 1956.

OMG: I have 7 machines! I forgot the model 55 that shocked the P**S out of me when I initially plugged it in! It looks almost brand new. Need to rebuild its amp, though. (Damned capacitors!)
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-17-2003, 10:06 PM:
 
The RCA-400 in my opinion was one of the best!
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 11-17-2003, 11:45 PM:
 
Of the Kalart-Victor 70-series models produced from the late 1950s (?) to the early 1980s (!), my favorite has to be the late-model units with the induction motor. I have a few in my collection that have to be the quietest-running projectors ever designed, even quieter than the RCA 400 (and I have a 416R to compare the Victors against...the 416R is by far the least noisy of any projector of its vintage).

I've always felt the threading pattern of the Victor was a good test of your A-V acumen...if you could thread a Victor properly, you could thread anything. (...well, any 16mm projector, that is.) I've seen more than my share of people get stumped trying to thread a Victor without any formal instruction, and I've bailed out a few teachers in my high-school days.

Bill C., is the carbon-arc Victor you mentioned one of these?:



[Edit...Woo-hoo! 250th post! I've reached the "Master Film Handler" level now! ]
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 11-18-2003, 08:08 AM:
 
au contraire, the 416R (which was a rare bird with the reversing capability) was generally noisier than the earlier 400's as it had the oil soaked metal drive gears vs. the early 400's with the fibre ones(which I have found to be virtually indestructable). The 416 also has what I think is an inferior amp with the 6973 ouptputs and the voltage doubler power supply vs. the 400's with 6V6 outputs and a massivbe piece of iron in the power supply. BTW: Those early 400 amps make dandy guitar amps with some tweaking!
 

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 11-18-2003, 09:24 AM:
 
Thats a neat projector there Jon
One day I hope to find a RCA Porta Arc.
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-18-2003, 10:06 AM:
 
Sam:

That should be "Porto Arc".
 

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 11-18-2003, 11:36 AM:
 
I stand corrected

P.S. A Porta Arc is a welding machine
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 11-18-2003, 08:02 PM:
 
The school system here had tons of Bell & Howell units. A few 385's, and zillions of 500's. When I was a senior in high school (yes, I made it that far!) the school system got its first 1500 that I got to use. I thought it was noisy and sounded cheap.

There were no Kodaks or RCA's at any of the schools that I attended.

Recently I got a Pageant AV-255S from 1959. What a monster this is to work on. Even the amp is a pain to get apart.

But I have to say that this projector humms along when it is running, and since the rebuild, has given no problems.

Anybody got a Natco? It's a left-hand threader. I have one with a bad amp. 3030 might be the model #. Like to get it working properly. It would work well in my bedroom. Nothing else ever happens in there, so it might as well be a little theatre...
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 11-18-2003, 09:48 PM:
 
Natco? They pop up occasionally on eBay. The problem I see with left-hand mechanisms in general (from a Natco to xenon pedestal Hortson machines) is that a print wound on a "projection" reel (with one round and one square spindle hole) has to be flipped and twisted to thread properly. It looks goofy; worse yet, the projector may not provide the proper back-tension to allow the film to pay out properly.

Sam--Glad you enjoy the carbon-arc Victor . Unfortunately, she is not 100% functional; the mechanism and amplifier work fine, but the reflector and condensor lens are missing and I am missing all the rectifier and lamphouse cables. The cables are no big deal...it's the optical parts that is the show-stopper.

It's interesting that the lamphouses on the Victor 1600 Arc and the RCA Porto-Arc were nearly identical, but the condensor lens was mounted differently (the lamphouse snout on the Victor, the projector mechanism on the RCA). Also interesting is that Kalart offered the Victor 1600 mechanism and base without the lamphouse well into the 1970s; I spotted one with an ORC 1000 integrated lamphouse on eBay about two years ago.
 

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Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 11-18-2003, 10:36 PM:
 
Jon,

That is the very machine! Lots of fun to run. I lucked out, and found a pretty good supply of Pearlex carbons for it, too. I did swap the tungars for sil-tubes in the rectifier.

Bill
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-20-2003, 02:16 AM:
 
A NATCO fanatic with 3030 + Sear Tower version + 3015 units on my shelf
 

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Posted by Webster Colcord (Member # 1955) on 11-20-2003, 06:32 PM:
 
I'm looking at purchasing a used Kalart Victor 80-35, which uses a MARC 300 lamp. The seller is going to send me a pic, but meanwhile I can't seem to find a picture of one anywhere on the web. Anyone had experience with this model?
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 11-20-2003, 08:24 PM:
 
Webster,

It should be similar to the 70-15 MC3, except for the amplifier (the 70-series was tube; the 80, solid state). AFAIK, the projector you are interested in is probably an 80-25 MC3...ICECO offered US Government surplus 80-25 MC3s for sale a number of years ago.

Here's an example of a 70-15 MC3...



Be aware that the Marc 300/16 lamp used in these machines are virtually out of production and are getting scarce, and, compared with xenon, the lamps cost much more per hour of operation. If you are looking for a portable high-intensity projector, any one of the Eiki models using a 350-watt xenon lamp is a better bet...Superior Quartz Products recently introduced a "clone" of that lamp, insuring economical spares for some time to come.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 11-21-2003, 06:16 AM:
 

quote:

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Be aware that the Marc 300/16 lamp used in these machines are virtually out of production and are getting scarce

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