Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: One hour fire projection in booth

This is topic One hour fire projection in booth in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Kevin Roudebush (Member # 1916) on 11-13-2003, 01:55 PM:

I'm looking for solutions to create a 1hr fire barrier protection to the booth relative to the projector windows. I can create the protection in the rest of the walls but am looking for the best solution through the projection window. Two ideas already looked at are 1hr fire glass and fire window shutters. Has anyone used the glass? Who was the manufacturer and what cost? (The stuff I've seen has a tint to it. will it impair the presentation?) Window shutters hooked up to a release mechanism that will close when the fire alarm goes off seems cumbersome and expensive. Are there other solutions?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-13-2003, 02:00 PM:

Metal fire doors hooked to fusible links are the way to go.

You're definitely going to lose light projecting through fire rated glass.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2003, 02:02 PM:

What Daryl said. Are you planning to run nitrate film? If so, have you checked to make sure that it is legal in your area?

Be sure to have a release for the fire shutters next to the booth door in addition to the fusable links.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-13-2003, 02:10 PM:

Check out the technical paper "The Care and Handling of Nitrate Film at UCLA's Unique Projection Facilities", by Jess Daily, in the June 1990 SMPTE Journal, Volume 99, page 453. They used custom fire doors and shutters.

Posted by Kevin Roudebush (Member # 1916) on 11-13-2003, 02:33 PM:

No, no nitrate film. I'm going to serve alcohol and code requires that you install a sprinkler system if the is more that 5000 sq ft of continuous space. So, it is less expensive to make a one hour fire wall and divide the theatre, three houses and a lobby into three areas, all less than 5000 sq ft. So, the projection window for two of the theatres need to be set up with whatever to make a firewall separation.

Do you have a make or manufacture for the shutters you mentioned? Any idea what they will cost to get installed?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-13-2003, 03:10 PM:

I don't know if they are made anymore but you could probably have some made up by a metal shop easily enough. The shutter itself need only be a flat steel plate maybe 1/8" to 3/16" thick or so. It's arranged to slide in a pair of channels on both sides and continuing across the bottom. These can be fabricated from two layers of sheet steel of similar thickness--on mine (no longer in use) they are about 1 3/4" wide--separated by pieces about an inch wide that are a bit thicker than the shutter. This creates the channel that the shutter plate can slide up and down on. I'm sure a metal shop could cut these pieces and weld the channel pieces together at little cost. Mine are attached to the port assembly but you can work out how it interfaces with your fire wall.

Then of course you need a control system. The shutters can be hung with a rope with a fusible link connecting to a hook directly above or you can have some sort of fancier system. Some booths used to have a long pipe with hooks for all the port shutters arranged so that if a link elsewhere melted a weight would rotate the pipe to the point where all the rings holding the shutters would be dumped off the hooks and all shutters would come down. In your case you probably will just have two ports per booth so something simpler would suffice

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-13-2003, 03:13 PM:

Some vendors of fire shutters:

http://www.alpinedoors.com/csfd.htm

http://www.sterlingshutters.com/fireshutters.htm

http://www.acmedoor.com/prod_bgfs.htm

http://www.ritedoors.co.uk/

http://www.cornelliron.com/counterf.html

http://www.cooksondoor.com/newpages/products/d04.html

Hope this helps.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-13-2003, 09:23 PM:

THe best solution is to use the accordian airduct fire dampers
Thet can be fitteded into the wall frame and serve as the prot frame

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 11-14-2003, 04:53 PM:

Hi -

Steel shutters are OK, as are Carbon Arcs and MOdel T Fords, but we stopped using them years ago here. Port glass is typically Pyradyr or Pyrex - on paper optically crap glass but goes cloudy if theres a fire. Works ! Some local authorities still require shutters but Westminster (the nastiest) even relaxed this for the new Curzon Mayfair, as long as we agreed "not to show films of a flammable nature" (on DP75s with plastic everywhere - mmmm)

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-15-2003, 07:21 AM:

By metal fire door I meant an accordian airduct fire damper, like Gord said.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-15-2003, 11:40 AM:

I would opt for the old style fire shutters that were used in projection booths years ago that were tripped with a fuse link or a handle.

As far as the walls are concerned, I think I remember hearing somewhere that 2 layers of 5/8 inch sheetrock will provide a 1 hour fire barrier. We went through this once with the fire department when a stock room was condemned.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 11-15-2003, 11:41 AM:

The idea of a simple steel shutter seems easy to make, so I'd first try Steve's suggestion of having them made locally. What will the walls be made of? I mean if the entire wall has to be remade to meet code, is that cheaper than a sprinkler?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-15-2003, 11:48 AM:

John, all new construction of buildings occupied by the public require sprinkler systems up here in Washington State. Three theaters I was involved with during the construction mode required sprinkler systems in the projection booth, auditoriums, lobby and restrooms.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-15-2003, 12:51 PM:

You could have a really hard time getting custom made steel "sheet" port shutters passed. Prove that they are fire rated... good luck.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-15-2003, 02:15 PM:

Any opening in a fire rated semising wall must be protected with a UL or ULc approved fire damper or closing device
It would be virtually impossible to get a UL approval with out destructive testing of the homemade device in the finished wall

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-15-2003, 03:56 PM:

Don't tell'em it's homemade. It ought to look precisely like shutters they've seen in lots of older theatres. Would they really look for certification marks and a paper trail? Canadian inspectors with too much time on their hands don't count!

Posted by Kevin Roudebush (Member # 1916) on 11-17-2003, 10:03 AM:

The walls are easy. They're contrete block and we'll install sheetrock and fire doors as needed.

I'm sure the building dept and fire insp. will require an approved firedoor of some sort. I'm sure you will all believe that their solution is to build a wall through the middle of the lobby between the back two theaters and the front theater and concession stand area then run that same wall up and through the middle of the projection booth. Therefore, the wall will split the theater in half by a one hour fire wall. Not excited about that so thanks for your links and thoughts. Meeting with the architects this afternoon.