Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ALTEC A7 born again...

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Posted by Fabrice Dubourg (Member # 1635) on 11-16-2003, 05:36 AM:

Altec-lansing is launching a new A7 web page

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-16-2003, 06:03 AM:

Porquoi? The $4300.00 price is for the audiofile market. The 900 hz crossover is probably to give the horn more protection and to sound better in small enviroments.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-16-2003, 08:50 AM:

Hmmm...the original specifications for the A-7 was 103dB at 1-watt/1-meter.

Part of the stupidly high price is the 13-ply Birch cabinet. At the end of it's production under EVI (prior to the Telex take-over) the A-7 was a particle board cabinet with fiberglass horn-flares (LF section...aka 825 then the 828 ending with the 828H). All other parts were the same except the crossover. I believe the A-7 had the N-1285...a nifty crossover with user setable points of 1200, 800, and 500 Hz. The A-7's HF horn was a 800Hz sectorial...the 811....the theatre version was known as the the A7-500 with a 511 Sectorial horn and the theatre specified 500Hz crossover. At the end of production, the A-7 was issued with a 909A-8 HF driver with the Mantaray driver (MR-992?).

In any event...it is true that the Altec 515 G series drivers are back in production as are the 902 and 909 HF drivers. The 299 (and hence the 288) is also once again available as is a newer version called the 399 (more pancake shaped than the 299 but acoustically equivalent using the same motor movement and diaphragm 25884 or 25885).

As a side note....there was a recent screening in the DC area where one of the New York firms came down to do the "Tech."....after checking over the room response..etc...the tech asked me..."What do you have behind that screen? It sounds so clear and transparent yet not harsh at all...very sweet sounding"...my response? Altec A-6 (similar to the JBL 4670 or the EV TS-940). The difference...the Altec drivers and Mantaray horn. The 288 driver mated to a Manatray horn (MRII594) is an exceptionally good sounding combination and the horn is second to none in its category.

As to Altec Lansing's new A-7...I'd be surprised if they have sold any at that price.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2003, 03:51 PM:

"Porquoi? The $4300.00 price is for the audiofile market."
_________________________________________________________________

While there may be some Asian hi-fi collectors interested in a re-born A-7, I'd hardly consider the A-7 an audiophile worthy speaker. Not enough dynamic range capability, and way too high of distortion. These are some of the normal tradeoffs for efficiency!! It was fine in the 50's and 60's but is thousands of research years (literally) behind the best dynamic drivers made today.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-16-2003, 04:33 PM:

I take audiophiles with a grain of salt when I encountered a client many years ago with two hearing aids while doing a demo....the limited response and distorsion of his aids probably match the A-7 [Big Grin]

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 11-16-2003, 05:26 PM:

How is the sensitivity rating at 2.83V compared to the sensitivity at 1 W?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 11-16-2003, 05:35 PM:

I agree Mark.

And Richard, you are kidding of course? :0

>>> Phil

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-16-2003, 05:56 PM:

OK Richard, You can take me with a grain of salt if ya want to. No matter..... [Big Grin]

Phil,
I almost forget about the Audiophile horn community which does indeed build extremely high end horns for those without hearing aid problems. There are indeed some VERY impressive systems out there. They just dont have any of the old industry names though. In particuluar Edgarhorn is one of the finest out there. Here is a site like, but its still under construction......
http://www.edgarhorn.com/

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-16-2003, 06:46 PM:

Mark & Phil. The client was a retired musician and I feel the sound pressure from the A-7's he had baffled in his sound room walls where more from his memory than his ears or could of been speech frequency loss. The room was in Clearwater, Florida and a boss and I where demoing some Phase Linear amplifiers + other toys.. He had sound parties with people with better hearing utilizing extensive LP and 1/4 tape library. We later upgraded his room with JBL.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 11-16-2003, 07:11 PM:

I once saw a review of the A7s compared to modern enclosures and the A7 just wasn't that great. That was about 10-15 years ago.
For their time they were good, but things got better.
Now I think some just think they look cool. Sort of a nostalgia thing or something [Confused]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-16-2003, 08:34 PM:

But at that price hw expensive would an A2 be? [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2003, 09:09 AM:

While I am no great friend of the A-7 I am of the A-5 since it has the 288/299 HF driver...I'd put it up against virtually any speaker made today. Remember...the system did evolve despite its appearance remaining the same. The Mantaray horn is second to none...the 515G is a rather evolved 515, the 288/299 is still better than most compression drivers of today. As to response, if you don't get 45 - 16K on an A-5 you must be doing something wrong. An A-4 is pretty flat down to 40Hz with its bass wings.

I'd take an A-4 or A-5 (room dependant) over virtually all "modern" cinema speakers today. In tough rooms (reverberent) they really outperform others.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-17-2003, 10:16 PM:

Steve, I agree on the A-5 if equipped with modern components and for use ONLY in a cinema application. Its quite good and can handle high power as reqired for digital. What we were really referring to here though is the A-7 as being an audiophile type speaker which is is definately not. For instance, Dynaudio produces a hf silk dome tweeter that is flat to 40khz and can handle 1kw pulses. Now that takes some slik R&D to achieve. This is more typical of whats going on in the extreme high end audiophile world.
Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2003, 06:06 AM:

Mark,

I dunno on the HF home market...The A-7 has its followers. Listening to some recordings like those from James Brown seem to have a less restricted sound through an A-7.

Personally, to me...compression drivers never really sounded natural in the home though with some music they can make it actually sound more natural.

My two favorite home speakers...my JBL L-250s (not with the titainium tweeters) and the Altec 604s....now the 604 was a very special speaker. Note, it too evolved over time finishing with the 604K...with essentially a 515G LF section and a 902 HF section with a Mantaray horn (crossed over at 1500Hz). With much Rock N Roll and R&B music they are so sweet.

Steve

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-25-2003, 10:57 PM:

I don't believe my eyes! One shortcoming of the A7 was the metal horn that rang like a bell. Another was the original passive crossover whose core saturated at the thought of loud passages.

It was one of the most unpleasant sounding speakers for loud music I've ever been around.

Steve, you've regressed.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 11-25-2003, 11:10 PM:

Although I am not an audiophile, i had a set of 604 E's and I agree with steve, old rock and roll just sounded great on them. I have never heard a speaker that had such a clear sound that filled the room. They came in a nice solid maple(?) cabinet with a dial crossover attached to the back.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 11-26-2003, 06:42 AM:

I wondered if anyone else noticed the photos of the reincarnated A7? When the horn is mounted inside the enclosure it replaces the solid board leaving the bottom port unobstructed. The picture shows the horn fully blocking that port. It is not going to sound very good with that chamber closed.

I used to have a pair of A7s in my room while in high school. My favorite recordings were of the pipe organ, specifically theatre organs. Driven by a pair of Dynaco tube amps, these were really sweet.

KEN

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 11-26-2003, 02:41 PM:

The guy who got me into the projection business when we were teenagers was fortunate enough to have his father as the local Altec-Lansing service rep. His house and shop had all kinds of cool things to play with.

There were a pair of A7s in the den of the house and we ran most any sort of audio we could find through them. Guitar amps, stereos, radios, anything. Although the sound could quite literally blow the walls down it just didn't sound right. Good, but not great.

But in a local theatre, 2000 seats with a balcony and great accoustics, these same speakers sounded incredible. Onscreen voices were natural as long as bass and treble weren't fiddled with.

That leads me to believe that speakers like the A7 were meant for big spaces, not small rooms. His dad often told us that you had to use the right tool for the job, meaning things like the A7 were just too big to make audio in a small area sound like it is supposed to. Something designed to fire sound some 200 feet to the back wall of the balcony just might be a tad powerful for an 10 X 12 room.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-26-2003, 06:02 PM:

Sam,

I stated "I'm no great friend of the A-7..." I'm not a sectorial horn fan (the 511 or 811). As to the ringing...you can deaden that with appropriate use of insulating foam on its back side. Some even coat down into the horn...I say just pitch the horn all together and land your hands on a Mantaray. But even then...I'll take an A-5. The 288 or 299 on the MRII-594 is just so sweet.

So again...where do you get that I'm regressing...I never said I was a big A-7 follower..it was always was wanting in the high-frequency...as you stated...then again...it will run off of a transistor radio! My favorite Altec speakers are the 604, A-4 and A-5...in that order...the A-6 is good for a direct radiator. Certainly...not all of the speakers listed will work in all spaces...in fact...they all have their particular spaces...the A-5 being the most versitile. I've used a ton of A-5s to "fix" tough rooms. Most recently at the Kimball theatre in Williamsburg, VA and the 19th Street theatre in Allentown, PA. Tough theatres are those with non-friendly acoustics or the stage speaker is expected to free-float in mid air inside of a stage house...and A-5 will do that...a direct radiator will just embarass itself.

As to the horn mounted in the cabinet (never the preferred tuning)...if you look real closely...you will see that it does not fill in the entire cavity...there are slots on the left and right just outside of the horn. The total port area will not be the same with the horn in and out of the cabinet since the horn/driver displaces internal cabinet volume. Again, the response will be better with the horn outside of the cabinet. Note also, they seem to be using the 515-8G LF driver this has a much different tuning than the orignal 803 or 416 driver originally used.

When the A-4 went to the 515-16G the number of ports increased from 2 to 4 and the upper chamber of the cabinet was blocked off.

Steve

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 11-28-2003, 05:39 PM:

If You're are searching for an oooold Altec system, we got three stage loudspeakers for sale: We closed recently a theater equiped with Altec loudspeakers and we are searching peoples who can be interested.
The only problem is that theses loudspeakers are verry big and weight equal than an elephant !
But if some Altec's lovers are interested about it, just send me an email...

But I think that theses Loudspeakers are too old to interess any person. we willtrow it to the dump [Frown]

Bye,