This is topic Strong LTI bulbs in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 12-01-2003, 12:06 AM:
 
We are about to start using LTI bulbs and I have heard that they are not very reliable. I was wondering if anyone can give me any information or opinions on them (how long will they put out good light, how often do they fail, etc..)

Thanks
 

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Posted by Jeff Klump (Member # 1870) on 12-01-2003, 03:04 AM:
 
We used to use LTI bulbs in our Strong lamphouses before we switched to Christie. I like Christie better because they usually burned brighter during the duration of their life. Also, I found that the LTI's last 500 hours longer (about 2500 hrs with 4000 watts) than their Christie counter parts. That's an extra two months for us. Another drawback we had were more explosions. We had 3 bulbs blow up within 2 years. In a year and a half with Christie we've had none. Hope this helps a little.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-01-2003, 03:53 AM:
 
Chris, I have had bad luck with them. I never had one blow up on me, but I never got mileage out of them as compared to Christie.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2003, 09:04 AM:
 
Of course Christie(actually Ushio) is the best, however we have not has a single failure of any LTI lamp and we have close to one hundred in the field now!! What ever problem may possibly arise from their use I'm sure Strong will back up every bit as well as Christie would. LTI's are quite a bit less expensive too.

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 12-01-2003, 09:36 AM:
 
We have been using LTI for about 2 years now. We are experiencing few failures about the same as we experience with ORC. There are a few other threads on the forum for LTI. Try a search for LTI Bulbs and you will see the other threads.
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-01-2003, 11:22 AM:
 
We have recently switched to LTI after a number of years of running Osrams, and most of them seem to be doing well- I have had one LTI bulb explode with 177 hours on it, but got it replaced for no charge under warranty. (FWIW, the only other bulbs I have ever had explode while in operation in a lamphouse were all Osrams)

I also am quite impressed with the bulbs from Superior Quartz.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 12-01-2003, 06:04 PM:
 
I have had four osram bulbs explode on me in the past year. Four out of 90-120 is not bad in my opinion. Of course they paid for the bulbs and reflectors. Other than that I have been happy with Osram.

Everything I had heard before was from people that haven't actually used the LTI bulbs. Sounds to me from what you guys are saying that they are good for the money. They might not last as long as Christie or Osram but they are cheaper. thanks
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-01-2003, 06:33 PM:
 
I only have had experience with 2k, 3k, 7k, and larger lamps from them.

While I never had any of them explode, I do agree with Jeff Klump in that they do not hold their brightness level over life as the Christies' do. The light seems to rapidly fall off like the ORC and Hanovia ones.

I've also had good luck with Osram, and as Aaron mentions, Superior Quartz.

I think for the dollars vs. performance, Christie and Superior are best overall.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-01-2003, 07:02 PM:
 
With respect to the 2kw bulbs: I wouldn't say that LTI bulbs are unreliable, but they seem to get about 30% fewer hours than Osrams before they start to flicker and need replacement (Osrams ran for about 3500-4000 hours, LTI ran for about 2500). This is in a 6-plex with Strong Highlight-II lamphouses. Usage patterns did not change when the bulb brands did (about a year and a half ago).

Obligatory disclaimer: don't take this as conclusive evidence of anything, as the sample size is too small. Also note that we were taking a risk by running the Osrams that far beyond warranty hours, which may or may not be the best thing to do, even when the picture is bright and flicker free. I've only had one bulb (an LTI, as it happens) explode; the usual failure mode seems to be flicker, dim bulb, or old bulb (we pulled everything at 4000 hours regardless of other factors).

I haven't dealt with Christie or Superior Quartz enough to have an opinion (haven't had any trouble with either). If it were my money and I were buying 2kw bulbs, I'd either go with Osram (which I know is good) or try Christie or SQ, due to the number of positive comments about both. Xenon bulbs are expensive, but they become cheap very fast when you consider the cost per hour of operation, so it makes sense to go with whatever gives the longest service in your lamphouses.
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-01-2003, 07:14 PM:
 
I'm not sure I would consider a 4% explosion rate "not bad". I'm not sure I would even consider a 4% "failure" rate "not bad".

I'd get fired if 4% of our shows went down.
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-01-2003, 08:02 PM:
 
This afternoon I replaced a 14,000+ hour old ORC bulb (installed in 1999) with a lovely new LTI bulb.

We'll see what happens.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-01-2003, 08:26 PM:
 
Aaron.....was the bulb in a vertical lamphouse?
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-01-2003, 08:31 PM:
 
Adam, you should be fired for any number of reasons!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 12-01-2003, 08:55 PM:
 
I've never had a problem using a LTI bulb...always got extra hours out of them... ORC on the other hand...
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2003, 10:18 PM:
 
I've noticed a general concencious that lamps drop off in brightness as they age...well this is definately true at least to some extent of all lamps, however, if a system is properly designed per say so that you have 16fl at the bottom end operating current of a certiain size lamp then you should not have any problems holding that 16 fl through the life of the lamp.

As far as explosions go I've had two myself. An Osram 1600 watter and a Christie 3kw. The Osram had way too many hours on it and the Christie was brand new out of the box and blew up on first ignition. Have yet to have an LTI blow up but sooner or later it'll happen just as it does with all the others.

Rachel,
ORC isn't in any of our language dictionarys.....They are crap!

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 12-01-2003, 10:47 PM:
 
So, 4 bulbs is a lot? I haven't been dealing with bulbs for that long. I thought that was decent. I should note the 4 bulbs were three explosions and one seal failure, none of which were anywhere near over hours.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-02-2003, 01:39 AM:
 
Those 4 failures out of 90-120 or whatever translate to, as Adam mentioned, about a 4% failure rate which presumably reflects theatre down-time/lost shows of at least that amount.

In the 1570/870/special venue world, the uptime is consistently 99.9+% overall. Too bad we cannot attain that in the commercial venues for whatever reasons.

And, as Adam also mentions, if someone responsible for a "quality" show (at any level) were to have that crappy of performance in those venues, their sorry ass would be Ummmm… "replaced."

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 12-02-2003, 01:52 AM:
 
I would be looking for *why* they each exploded. Were they all in the same lamphouse? On the same exhaust vent? Are the lamphouses aligned properly? Were they all from the same manufacturing lot?

The Paper on analyzing xenon bulb failures by Ray Boegner is a good read.

I've only had three lamps explode on me and they were all on the same night. Some crap fly-by-night lamps that I was chosen to guinea pig for the company. The packages were not labeled and I don't know who the manufacturer was. They all failed (exploded) within four hours of installation.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-02-2003, 02:38 AM:
 
Although a 4% failure rate is high, it does not translate into a lost show rate of 4%. For that to be true, you could only run one show during the life of each lamp.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-02-2003, 03:09 AM:
 
You mean you don't use a fresh bulb with each show? JEEEZE!

You are correct Daryl. I was thinking of other reasons like audio failures as well... in my convoluted thinking.

But, as you point out, I must have been smokin' some of that I-30 stuff....

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-02-2003, 03:23 AM:
 

quote:

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Aaron.....was the bulb in a vertical lamphouse?

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Yes, it was a CFS console.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-02-2003, 03:37 AM:
 
Ah yes...the CFS console....better known as "Flicker City".

Make sure you get that lamp properly focused else you'll be picking up melted mirror stuff from the lamp and reflector...

I HATE THEM! Ummm... have a nice day.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2003, 08:11 AM:
 
Chris Hipp wrote:

quote:

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I should note the 4 bulbs were three explosions and one seal failure, none of which were anywhere near over hours.

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quote:

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I would be looking for *why* they each exploded. Were they all in the same lamphouse? On the same exhaust vent? Are the lamphouses aligned properly? Were they all from the same manufacturing lot?

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quote:

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So, it may not have been defective bulbs. I don't know why I didn't make the connection before.

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Glad to have been of help.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-02-2003, 09:52 AM:
 
Out of curiousity, what is the "normal" defect rate on xenon bulbs? I'd define "defect rate" as "per centage of bulbs which do not provide good light output throughout the warranty period." Obviously, only a small fraction of these will actually explode; most will just flicker or go dark. Bulbs which are operated outside of the manufacturers' specs (too much/little current, too much/little ventilation, etc.) wouldn't count, naturally.

I'd guess that it's only a fraction of 1%, but maybe someone knows for sure.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2003, 10:50 AM:
 
The measure of quality today for many companies is "Six Sigma" manufacturing:

http://www.isixsigma.com/

Achieving "six sigma" process quality means less than 1 defect in approximately 300,000 "opportunities".

Of course, some manufacturers do a better job than others in making quality products.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/researchDevelopment/careers/sixSigma.shtml
 

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Posted by Scott Manley (Member # 867) on 12-02-2003, 09:56 PM:
 
I have had about 8 theaters try the LTI bulbs......I think they had one bulb go close to 2000 hrs.....Mostly they go dim...and physicaly darken.....Have experienced good warranty service for the bad bulbs.....but all have switched back to Christie.
 

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Posted by Chris Greenwell (Member # 1660) on 12-03-2003, 02:35 AM:
 
Ive seem to have had better luck with the LTI's than osram, but I have to admit Christie is still my top pick. My company just ordered a few "Silverscreen Lighting" Bulbs, have any of you had any experience with that kind before??? I just put in some of there Slide Projector lamps in my slide machines and about 1/2 of them exploded when I first lit them up, So im a little concerned about to put these Xenons in...
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-03-2003, 09:01 AM:
 
The Silver Screen Lighting xenon lamps are made in China:

http://www.silverscreenlighting.com/
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-27-2004, 11:48 PM:
 
Well after a few months of using LTI bulbs I can safely say that I am not too impressed. As Mark said, I notice a drop off of light very early. so far I have used 4.5k bulbs and 1 6002w bulb. The 4.5 ks "dropped" off after about 500-600 hours and the 6k exploded about about 20 hours.

Before you say it is my lamphouses, The 6k bulb that I changed out was an osram with about 1300 hours on it and still gave great light. The 4k bulbs were way over recommended hours also and still looked good on screen.

Not a good first impression on the 6k bulbs.

We will soon be changeing to the GS bulbs with Glass reflectors...I cant wait.
 

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Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 02-28-2004, 04:15 AM:
 
Im running two screens with strong super 80 lamphouses. Our company has been ordering Christie bulbs. I use 3ks. I get an average of 3200 hours before they start to strike hard or flicker. When I take them out, the envelope is still clear. The only thing different from a new bulb is the distance from the annode to the cathode.
 

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