This is topic Best way of cleaning a print? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Neil Chue Hong (Member # 685) on 12-01-2003, 07:48 AM:
Hi folks,
I know the subject of how to keep prints clean over many runs has been answered a lot on the forum, but does anyone have a suggestion for how best to clean a print which is going to be run once?
We quite often get prints which have a variety of muck on them, typically tippex, chinagraph, oil, glue build up, or plain old dust.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-01-2003, 08:14 AM:
Unless you're prepared to rehearse the print a couple of times, PTRs aren't going to be much use in this scenario. They remove contaminants gradually over several passes and won't make much difference on a single pass. When preparing archival elements for telecine or projection, I've found that Filmguard (applied by hand using a Selvyt cloth) can do an incredibly good job - it really is effective for getting dirt off a print and 'filling in' light base scratches so as to make them invisible. For older acetate prints which are a bit shrunk or brittle, the lubricating function of FG will make them run more smoothly, too. It's available from Jack Roe.
The one drawback is that if applied by hand rather than an automated media pad, I've found that FG can sometimes dissolve the adhesive on tape joins, so I'd apply the stuff as lightly as possible.
Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 12-01-2003, 08:36 AM:
I know Brad is a stickler on the Kelmar cleaner as the preferred method of Film Guard application, but Leo's right about hand application between rewinds for a single showing. In addition to his cautions about applying very sparingly, my only suggestion would be a careful drying betweeen clean cloths (I use Webril Wipes), turning frequently, after the print has sat for an hour or more with the Film Guard. The reason for this is the great deal of additional dirt which is removed after the Film Guard has had a chance to soften and dissolve it.
Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 01-02-2004, 09:02 PM:
We now have a working (once reassembled) dry media cleaner
we only ever show a film once and have access to the booth approximately 2 hours before showtime.
The easiest solution would be to run the film though the cleaner (with filmguard) on route from the tower to the projector. Would this clean the film on the first pass?
We only show in this venue once a week so would we need new cleaning pads each week or could we store them in an airtight box between showings)? The building is a decaying 1960s stucture in which we share booth facilities with the universities slide projection facilities.
[ 01-05-2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Mark Hajducki ]
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-02-2004, 09:15 PM:
I have never seen a media cleaner that looks like that. Perhaps an early prototype design? I would love to see more pictures of it assembled and how it mounts if you can.
The first pass will only lubricate and protect, it will not clean. The cleaning begins on the second pass and moreso with each subsequent pass through the cleaner. You ideally need to find a way to "speed wind" at 2-3 times projection speed from reel to reel through the cleaner several times to get the best effect. Since you are running older prints that are dirty and not brand new ones, you will probably want to toss "last week's" media pads and start with a clean pair.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-02-2004, 09:16 PM:
There are several good wet cleaners on the market as well as several good dry brush style cleaners
SanLab systems makes several as does Lipsner Smith
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-05-2004, 04:41 AM:
Agreed with Brad - if the object of the exercise is to remove crap from the film (as distinct from preventing it from getting onto the film in the first place), it will, of course, transfer onto the cloth or media roll.
Would it be possible to mount your cleaner in such a way that you could run the film through it while making up the programme onto the tower, and then again as you rewind the assembled reel for projection? That would give you two cleaning passes before the show.
Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 01-05-2004, 07:13 AM:
I recently had to clean a older print and with Brads advice I set up the cleaner on the rewind bench. I used Filmguard on it and then proceeded to hand rewind the print thru the media 3 times before running the print which was for one showing and now they have just given me the print again and asked if I will run it thru the media one more time before the print gets stored for next years use. It worked very well and the owner of the print was more than pleased.
Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 01-05-2004, 08:07 AM:
The photograph of the film cleaner that Neil has posted is called a Drikleen, and made by Premier.
It was at one time used in most Odeon cinemas, and is, I believe, based on a Christie film cleaner of the late 1970s.
The film is run between the two cleaning media rolls, and over the large black roller. This roller is driven by the film, and in turn drives, through the internal chain, and gear
assembly, the rolls of media so that a clean piece of media is always in contact with the film.
It was quite effective for cleaning surface dirt off the film, but not much use for ingrained dirt.
You can run an average feature through the cleaner about twice before running out of media.
The rolls are still available from Jack Roe.
Posted by Neil Chue Hong (Member # 685) on 01-05-2004, 08:32 AM:
Thanks for the information Hugh!
We may be able to mount the cleaner on the tower (we have a Westrex 7000 series double feature tower) where it can do a pass as the film is made up onto the 12000' reel and another as the film is being projected, but I suspect we'll require two mounting points.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-02-2008, 06:04 AM:
It has been 1701 days since the last post.
Posted by Richard Curtis (Member # 4915) on 09-02-2008, 06:04 AM:
We're in a similar position (single run films, shown from a tower), and I'm about to purchase some FilmGuard, and a cloth, in order to see how it might work best for us.
As far as I can tell from the statements above, and other posts:
I can apply FilmGuard by hand as I make up the film, or as I rewind it onto our tower (or, ideally, both), but I need to use very little solution, and a suitable cloth.
Even if I only use the solution once, it will still improve performance through lubrication, and protection to the print, if not cleaning.
I have done a quick search for Selvyt Cloths, which appear to be recommended by some here, and assume I'd need the 'SR Universal Polishing Cloth', or some other cloth suitable for cleaning lenses?
Also, has anyone spent a while applying FilmGuard by hand? I imagine each experience is different, but if anyone's got any tips regarding measuring an appropriate amount of solution, whether application during making up or rewinding is easier/works better etc etc.
Thanks!
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-02-2008, 11:17 AM:
Mount your film cleaner on the makeup bench, midway between the two spindles/reels and run the film through the FilmGuard-soaked media rolls as you build your print.
Just be careful to make sure you don't go faster than 2X or 3X normal projection speed when you wind the film through the machine or else you'll scratch the hell out of the film!
It takes longer to build the film up when you do it this way but, if you consider the time it takes to pre-screen the print through the projector using the film cleaner in the usual way, you will save time.
If it takes you one hour to build a print, plus two hours to screen it, you can save an hour's time. It will take approx. two hours to build the print but you won't have to run it through the projector to clean it. Net savings: One hour.
In my booth, prints are almost always pre-screened. Time savings is usually not a factor. When I decide to clean film at the bench it's because I think the film needs an extra run of FilmGuard.
I might have some photos of the setup I use to clean at the bench. If I can find them I'll post them here.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-02-2008, 05:57 PM:
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