Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Crap Code on LOTR:FOTR(SE)

This is topic Crap Code on LOTR:FOTR(SE) - wtf? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 12-06-2003, 10:27 PM:

An entire REEL ruined with those pesky red dots.

Why? Why? Why?

This SE has already been out on VHS (very copyable)and DVD (somewhat copyable) for MORE THAN A YEAR! And the SE is CURRENTLY showing on STARZ Movie Channel! So WHO THE HELL is going to go to the trouble to PIRATE this new print???

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-06-2003, 10:32 PM:

Don't you understand, piracy has become a sport.

The crap code will win this match, by default, since nobody's going to bother pirating it.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-08-2003, 11:24 AM:

It would be a good question to ask someone at New Line. I assume that no one thought about the fact that it was already out and just proceded with their machine-like habitual CAPcoding.

Incidently, the print I saw had a lot of negative hair and ocasionally strange black splotches on the left edge of the image. Did anyone else see these (outside of Boston)?

--jhawk

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-08-2003, 11:37 AM:

I think John is probably right. They are just doing it because that's what they always do and they'll be damned if they put any thought into the process.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-08-2003, 11:58 AM:

jhawk wrote:

quote:
Incidently, the print I saw had a lot of negative hair and ocasionally strange black splotches on the left edge of the image. Did anyone else see these (outside of Boston)?

Occasional blotches along the left side of the image are usually due to accidental "bleeding" or spashing of the soundtrack redeveloper, a problem that will be eliminated with the conversion to cyan dye analog soundtracks. [Smile]

New Line usually uses another manufacturer's print film. [Frown]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-08-2003, 04:20 PM:

The prints stated that they were on Fuji stock. The lowering of quality will be what any conversion to cyan will bring...now conversion to digital projection will eliminate the other anomolies. Of course...new digitally perfect artifacts will replace them.

Steve

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-08-2003, 04:25 PM:

I don't think it was soundtrack developer; they were opaque blotches that were only present for a frame or so, and they had no purple tinge to them.

--jhawk

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-08-2003, 04:45 PM:

Yes Red Square Pixel Cap Codes is the digetal improvement [Big Grin]

Posted by Jim Leko (Member # 1287) on 12-09-2003, 12:33 AM:

American Cinematographer: The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers

quote:

TECHNICAL SPECS

Super 35mm 2.35:1

Arriflex, Moviecam and Mitchell cameras

Zeiss and Angenieux lenses

Kodak EXR 50D 5245, Vision 200T 5293, Vision 500T 5279, SO 214

Digital Intermediate
Scanning/Recording by Weta Digital
Digital Film Grading by The PostHouse AG

Printed on Fuji 3513D

I saw FOTR today, and I was upset with the CRAP codes as well. The Extended Edition of FOTR has been on DVD for almost 14 months. You can get a pirated copy online that will look much better than anything that could be ripped off from within a theater. The first few reels seemed ok. Then all of the sudden, it was shock and awe. They were everywhere.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-09-2003, 02:10 AM:

"They were everywhere."

Really? I didn't see them until reel 9. Was the coded reel variable?

--jhawk

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-09-2003, 10:51 AM:

jhawk wrote:

quote:
I don't think it was soundtrack developer; they were opaque blotches that were only present for a frame or so, and they had no purple tinge to them.

When the soundtrack developer splashes or bleeds into the picture area, it converts silver halide back to silver within the image which won't be cleaned out by the 2nd fixer. The silver appears as gray or black over the image. No "purple tinge":

Here are the Kodak ECP-2D process specifications:

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/support/processing/h249/h2409.pdf

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-10-2003, 04:29 PM:

Attended FOTR-SE last night at Marcus Ridge Cinema in New Berlin, WI, and the Crap Code was all over the reel where they are in Lorien.

Every time Galadriel appeared on screen, she would have Chicken Pox.

Fortunately, I didn't see it anywhere else during the film.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 12-11-2003, 05:00 PM:

CRAP Code on mainstream movies, CRAP Code on arthouse product, now CRAP Code on re-releases. The Triple Crown!

Posted by Liam Utley (Member # 1931) on 12-11-2003, 09:15 PM:

The cinema i work at received an email stating that ROTK will have anti-piracy coding... please, for the sake of all that is good (and my sanity), please dont let it be LOTR: ROTCAP!!! I felt that CAP code really took my focus off the movie during Kill Bill during the B&W scenes. I'll wait for the dvd so that i can enjoy it properly.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-11-2003, 10:05 PM:

I didn't notice any crap code on "Last Samauri"... Anyone else notice it?
Mark

Posted by John A. Parker Jr. (Member # 1719) on 12-11-2003, 10:36 PM:

Are we having fun with the cap code? Well, an easy way to
tell which reel has it without running any of the show is
to look at the leader. If there is a bar code before picture start, that's the reel it's on.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-12-2003, 02:01 AM:

the print of last samurai i saw had it on reel 2, but i only noticed it twice.

can anyone confirm the above barcode observation?

carl

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-12-2003, 09:06 AM:

For whatever it's worth, I watched an original (2001) print of FOTR recently and it definitely didn't have the new Deluxe "crap code." If it had standard Kodak "CAP code," I certainly didn't notice it. This print was also made at Deluxe Hollywod.

Weird.

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 12-12-2003, 02:41 PM:

I screened our print of Two Towers last night and in reel 8 I saw that crap at least 18 times. I was ready to kill. [Mad]

I would like to to try to replace the reel but I think we would get a replacement with the same old [bs]

I feel that no one would listen regardless how much all of us complained. I think the industry views the exhibitors as "red-headed step children". Has anybody any luck trying to replace reels with this garbage? Has anybody mentioned this to their home offices or bookers? I just need to know if this can be seriously approached with the right people.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 12-12-2003, 07:32 PM:

quote:
Don't you understand, piracy has become a sport

Yep - and anti-piracy has become an obsession.
About 200 danish cinema-owners at pre-screening last week were all checked with metal-detectors and curious hands - costing half an hour delay on the screening. AND a gorilla was posted beside the projectionist to keep his camera in the pocket. -IF someone in that forum would want to make a pirate-print, don't You think, someone else in exactly that forum would take him down ??

Besides: a bad, bad internet copy was available long before, suggesting, that anti-piracy efforts might be more needed somewhere earlier in the chain than the exhibition...

Per

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-14-2003, 08:27 PM:

I can honestly say that Reel 7 of LOTR:The Two Towers (not affiliated with Twin Towers tragedy in any way) was destroyed by excessive CRAP CODING at the Uptown...probably averages one flash per minute and often right where the action is so you will be looking at them.

Are they trying to make movies so not worth watching that no one should come, let alone copy?

Steve

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-15-2003, 02:05 AM:

Has this absurd security stuff be happening just on the sneak previews or has it move to the normal first run engagments? If it only happens at the sneaks, then I don't understand why NATO can't simply tell the MPAA that this is intrusive and detrimental to business and just like all the studios sign-on to MPAA decisions, the chains could just say the NATO policy is that their theatres will not run any sneaks where patrons are wanded or searched. That would put a stop to this nonsense (to say nothing of wonderful idea of hundreds of patrons stuffing aluminum balls in the bottom of the popcorn buckets.

Do the theatre's get paid to show the sneaks? Aren't some sneaks run in theatres where the picture will not play? We get paid to run the sneaks -- they essentially four-wall the theatre, so I guess they can stipulate what they want. But still, we wouldn't let them do ANYTHING they want and we certainly would consider refusing to booth the theatre to them if it had a negative effect on patron perception of our operation.

I think this whole issue of security procedures should be agressively addressed by NATO. What NATO needs is its own version of Jack Valenti! Someone who can annoy the opposition into submission.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-15-2003, 01:16 PM:

Frank asks, "Has this absurd security stuff be happening just on the sneak previews or has it move to the normal first run engagments?"

Assuming you're talking about CAP code, it has nothing to do with sneak previews. It started pretty much across the board and did not begin with sneak previews, but with all prints. Note that there were no sneak previews of the extended LOTR features (as far as I know).

--jhawk