This is topic Surround EX with CP55 in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 12-22-2003, 07:55 AM:
 
hi!

I have an old Cp 55 and want to use it as a Surround EX Decoder with a Sony DCP-1000 and a Dolby DA 20.
I want to connect the DA 20 outputs from Surround Left and Surround Right to the backplane of the CP 55 (cat 150, Lt and Rt in) and the same wires to "Aux in L and R". The outputs of the Cp 55 get connected to the Inputs of the DCP-1000 along with the other channels from the DA 20. Using this method I can use the digital EQ in the DCP because I have only 3 screen channels. If the film is in Surround EX I press Format 03, for all other films I can press "Aux".

My Question:
Will this work?

Max
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-22-2003, 12:42 PM:
 
I gather you want to send the P and Q output to both the cp55 Lt and Rt input as well as the DFP
The only issue might be a ground loop one the CP55 is unbalnaced
 

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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 12-22-2003, 02:29 PM:
 
DA 20 "L" out -> DCP-1000 "L" in
DA 20 "C" out -> DCP-1000 "C" in
DA 20 "R" out -> DCP-1000 "R" in
DA 20 "SW"out -> DCP-1000 "SW"in
DA 20 "LS"out -> CP 55 Cat 150 "Lt" in AND "L Aux" in
DA 20 "RS"out -> CP 55 Cat 150 "Rt" in AND "R Aux" in
CP 55 "L" out -> DCP-1000 "SL" in
CP 55 "R" out -> DCP-1000 "SR" in
CP 55 "C" out -> DCP-1000 "RC" in

On the DCP-1000 the Right-Center channels isn't used so that I can use it as the third Surround Channel. The DA 20 is also unbalanced so it shouldn't be a problem if I ground the shield on the DA 20 end only!?

One question left: can I connect the DCP directly AFTER the cat 150 so that the signal mustn't pass through the cat 64s and the cat 242? Does the Cp 55 control the Cat 150 (to set it to format 03) or does ist control the Cat 242 to Mute the Surround-channel in format 03?
Thanks

Max
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2003, 06:41 PM:
 
Good lord! I'd throw the DCP1000 in the nearest trash can as the CP55 is far, far superior and can be easily upgraded to work directly with the DA-20 and EX...again, with FAR SUPERIOR results. The CP55 is not a unit that you'd want as secondary processor!! I'm amazed the Sony actually sold any of those.....
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-22-2003, 06:52 PM:
 
Seriously, listen to Mark's advice. Use the CP55 as your main processor and the Sony as the EX machine.

That being said, this will work EITHER way.

I have a couple of screens with a CP65 processor as the "main processor" and a CP55 as the "EX processor". The way I made the connections was taking the LS and RS out of the CP65 into the CP55, then changing some of the diode jumpers so that the MAG and AUX became my "regular 2 channel surround" and "EX surround". This way, the fader can be adjusted on the CP65 as normal with the fader on the CP55 left at "7". If a movie came with unusually loud or soft surrounds, the CP55 could simply be turned up or down and both units would still track together using the single CP65 fader. This also offered me the cat64B cards in the CP55 to equalize the LS and RS channels.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-22-2003, 08:02 PM:
 
Yea, Its really nice to have 1/3 octave EQ on the surrounds. That about the only offering the Sony normally affords. At least the DFP3000 does....I never sold a 1000 and never would. Of course its possible to have 1/3 with simple outboard eq units and I've done that many times.
Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-23-2003, 01:15 AM:
 
Please note that the Panastereo SP23-30 has 1/3-octave EQ cards.

Personally, I prefer parametric EQ over 1/3-octave but the cinema industry just isn't there yet.

Steve
 

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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 12-23-2003, 02:50 AM:
 
Hi Mark, hi Brad!

Ok, ok.. but the CP 55 doesn't has a Cat 441 for Subwoofer and Split surround. The DCP-1000 _has_ 1/3 Octave EQ on all channels (even the Subwoofer ...) and 1 month ago (before I got the CP 55) I've bought an A-IN Board to connect the DA 20 to the DCP, not very cheap! The CP 55 also has no SR-NR so I would have to buy a SRA-5. What is so bad on the DCP-1000?
A few questions about the CP55:
1.Is there a way to modify the Mute- Fade out time? 1.5 sec. is to fast.
2. Is the Non-Sync Input going through the complete EQ?

Thanks

Max
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2003, 03:47 PM:
 
Max,
I too would do it the other way around. The CP-55 will sound better in type A than Sony's digital emulation scheme. The 1/3 octave EQ is about the only really good point about the Sony. SDDS sounds really good too when its working ok. Its too bad you spent the money on the adaptor board when you could have spent the money on a 441 card and Panastereo. The 55 is a dynamyte processor that is fully upgradable for all of the digital formats. Analog still rules as far as sound quality and the CP-55/65 processors are among the very best there is.
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 12-23-2003, 04:03 PM:
 
Hi Mark,

do you mean that the A-type NR in the CP 55 sounds better than "SR"-typein the DCP or better than the "A"-type in the DCP?

Max
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2003, 05:46 PM:
 
I never felt any of the Sonys did a very good job with analog SR...lets face it.....they just call them analog 1 and analog 2 in the setup software....so what are they really? And what are they really doing to the soundtrack? Only Sony might actually know that. Accurately decoding SR is a very tricky thing to do weather its attempted in the analog or digital domain. In overall performance and sound quality the Dolby Analog processor will blow the Sony analog counterpart away, plus if the Dolby dies its an easy inexpensive fix. The Sony is another story...at least over here Sony processors can be a very expensive unit to have repaired while all thats needed is a simple R/A for a bad Dolby Card. I agree the upgrades to the Dolby can cost some money but those upgrades are well worth the price and effort to install. For now analog stuff still sounds far superior and all the Dolby processors excepting the CP-100 can do it right. The Panastereo CSP-1200 is also just as good, and perhaps actually more capable of doing the job correctly if thats what you are after, its also very flexible.

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Andrew Walls (Member # 179) on 12-23-2003, 06:18 PM:
 


[ 08-29-2008, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Walls ]
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-23-2003, 08:15 PM:
 
mark don't knock the CP100 it is still a very versitile machine in fact I made one into a EX box that supported 1/3 octave EQ on all the surround channels
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2003, 09:22 PM:
 
Gord,
Hardly knocking the 100 at all. Its just not supported any longer. It does have THE most reliable power supply Dolby ever made but the fader in it lacks even ehough headroom for SR.
Mark
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-23-2003, 09:40 PM:
 
the fader is identical to the one in the CP50 and for surrounds it is more than adequate and if one is cleaver it can be configured to be where it really should be in the first place EX pre fader so the AGC in the matrix isn't being effected by the fader level
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-24-2003, 01:57 AM:
 
Gord,
The lack of headroom on the 117 card, and the original 108 as well is exactly why the 517,and 108C were designed...aside from the fact that the fader chips are probably obsolete. The faders also have a rather bad crossover notch at the hf end of the band. The 517 is so much better than the 117 that you ought to think about adapting it to the 100's that you service up there. It would make a huge audible improvement. Hey, as far as many of the IC's in there are concerned thats vintage technology.

But don't get me wrong...I hardly hate the 100 at all. I installed a few used units that gave no problems at all...ever. A number of them are still in service in various locations and alot of different things can be done with the unit for other purposes as well.
Mark
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-24-2003, 05:40 PM:
 
There are still 5 CP100's that we deal with out there
 

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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 12-25-2003, 03:40 PM:
 
Hi!

Finally, I have now 2 Cat 280s
In which position should the switch on the back be?

Max
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-25-2003, 06:12 PM:
 
IIRC correctly the switch only pertains to using them in certain external NR frames and doesn't matter when plugged into a CP. But you must make sure they are 280T's (280 with the tiny jumper cut to force them into decode) so they don't go into ENcode mode when in a CP (making SR more SR).
 

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Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 12-25-2003, 08:52 PM:
 
You unfortunately can't plug them directly into a CP-55 though.

quote:

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A few questions about the CP55:
1.Is there a way to modify the Mute- Fade out time? 1.5 sec. is to fast.
2. Is the Non-Sync Input going through the complete EQ?

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