Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: smpte eg18

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Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 12-24-2003, 01:51 PM:

Hi, i hear a lot of this standard. We are busy designing a new cinema. Is there a possibility that you can tell me how i can read that standard. Is there also information about sound transmitting from one cinema to another.

Bas

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-24-2003, 07:43 PM:

What exactly is SMPTE's position on disclosing the contents of the standards to non-members?

(a) We want *everyone* to benefit from our research; the longevity of our industry depends on it. By all means, spread the word!
(b) Our standards were derived at great cost. As much as we would like to "give it away," that is just not practical.

I guess I'm inquiring as to the "personality" of SMPTE?

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 12-24-2003, 08:31 PM:

If it's an "EG", it's not a standard but an "Engineering Guideline". Anyway, it's a moot point because there is no eg18. There's no guideline of which I'm aware between EG17 and EG20, so check your numbers. As far as standards, test materials and 'RPs', or recommended practices, even SMPTE members have to buy them. What does the EG you're looking for deal with?

Posted by Christos Mitsakis (Member # 143) on 12-25-2003, 07:58 AM:

EG 18-1989 (at least the version I have)
"Design of Effective Cine Theaters"

7 pages in 8 sections

1. Introduction
2. Image size
3. Viewing Angle Distortion
4. Visibility
5. Comfort
6. Projection Angle Distortion
7. Architectural Distractions
8. Acoustical Environment (there is a table of recomended noise reduction between adjacent theatres but I suppose it must be outdated by todays standards)

You can find it also in the Journal of SMPTE, June 1990.

Christos.

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 12-25-2003, 08:39 AM:

Thanks, Christos. That EG doesn't appear on the SMPTE numerical listing index. There's nothing on it prior to 1990. Frankly, I think the SMPTE website is practically useless, even for members. It's no good for research at all. I do plenty of research as a grad student and don't have nearly as much trouble finding things from other professional groups. Another gripe...Ever notice how BAD the digital pictures look in a technical journal that deals with imaging? It's funny how all the ads look great, though.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2003, 02:04 PM:

EG-18 was recently withdrawn (for reasons that I don't feel at liberty to discuss at this time...being a comittee member).

It is available in the archive section of the SMPTE CD-ROMS of their publications.

The SMPTE sells their RPs, EGs and Standards. In fact, just to barely touch on EG-18s difficulty is just as Antonio stated...it is NOT a Standard though some groups were treating it as such. It was as the name implies...Engineering Guideline.

EGs tend to be derived from real-world experience. That is, some engineer or group studied a subject and here is what we found and published. Use it/don't use it...your choice.

Moving up the ladder you get an RP or Recommended Practice. This still is NOT a standard but now we are recommending that you follow it based on good engineering practice. 35-PA comes from the RP-40 document...it is not a standard even though some may use it as such. The Schneider CLT test film complies with the dimensional standards too.

The highest level of document is indeed the STANDARD...aka the ANSI/SMPTE standard. These documents are much more strict in their upkeep (they must be reviewed periodically and be resubmitted to retain their standard). The Electro Acoustic response for theatres ANSI/SMPTE 202M is a standard so the whole X-curve thing is a standard. Light levels like the 16fL in the center are covered by the ANSI/SMPTE 196M.

The SMPTE makes available a "subscription service" and sells CD-ROM with all of the EGs, RPs and Standards that pertain to just Cinema or TV or both.

As to EG-18...get you hands on it somehow...follow it and you will never have design issues with your theatre. It was one of the best all-in-one documents for theatre design I've seen. I hope to see it come back someday.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-29-2003, 03:41 PM:

As noted, the SMPTE sells CD-ROMS with .pdf files of all the standards, recommended practices, and engineering guidelines for a very reasonable price. Individual documents are also available as paper copies, at a moderate price of $15 and up, depending on the number of pages.

http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/standards/cd_standards.cfm

http://www.smpte.org/smpte_store/standards/

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-29-2003, 05:00 PM:

If I purchase the cinema CD now, is this EG still on it? Like Steve said, in the archive section?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-29-2003, 07:31 PM:

I don't know how fast the SMPTE updates the CD-Roms...EG-18 was archived March of 2003

Steve

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-30-2003, 08:47 PM:

I believe the "archived" documents are also published on the CD-ROM.