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Posted by Scott Manley (Member # 867) on 12-31-2003, 09:00 AM:
 
What are the suggestions for the best way to move prints around. Especially larger prints.Any suggestions besides the clamps would be helpful.
 

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Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 12-31-2003, 09:16 AM:
 
Hey Scott, When I was working for UA in Corpus we had a large sheet of 3/4 Plywood that had a U shaped opening cut out with beveled edges on the legs of the U. it also had a set of holes drilled around it to facilitate a way to fasten the print to the board. If your intrested in what it looks like I brought the one from Cine 6 up to the Howard in Taylor. I can let you see what it looks like.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-31-2003, 09:39 AM:
 
Best method I've seen is a "doughnut" shaped board or large reel flange that is put on the platter you are taking up onto, then winding the print onto it. Two people can then lift the board/flange and print, and move it to another platter.

Here's a link to the Goldberg Platter Reel:

http://www.film-tech.com/reviews/review15.html

http://www.rsem.com/equipment-details.asp?partnum=5810001

Methods that require slipping clamps or a u-shaped "cookie sheet" under the already wound print do risk some edge damage.

Moving a print without support risks a pile of film spaghetti on the floor.
 

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Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 12-31-2003, 10:05 AM:
 
One of the many things I love about Kinoton platters is that the take-up is so good that you can safely move a print simply by picking it up as is.

Their make-up table is particularly impressive; whether you are winding a print onto the platter or from the platter back onto reels, both the supply and take-up are simultaneously controlled. You can wind a print onto the platter, then simply pick it up and take it somewhere else! Perfect.

All other platter systems I've used require some kind of support to move a print, such as an envelope.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-31-2003, 10:19 AM:
 
Michael Barry wrote:

quote:

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One of the many things I love about Kinoton platters is that the take-up is so good that you can safely move a print simply by picking it up as is.

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That may be well and good, but you still risk "spilling" the print. The frictional characteristics may be such that even a tightly wound roll could slip apart. (e.g., if the print had been over lubricated).
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-31-2003, 11:05 AM:
 
We move prints on AW3 platters all the time without clamps. This assumes the platter is of recent (last 20 years) vintage or has the takeup arm spring modification done to it. Also the new locking center rings greatly help. The real trick though is in how it is handled. Do it wrong and you may experience the spaghetti John mentioned above.
 

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Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 12-31-2003, 11:54 AM:
 
This being New Years eve, place several bottle rockets under the print, aim them in the right direction, and light them all at the same time. By the way, don't use the ones that explode at the end of their flight. Good luck, and Happy New Year.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-31-2003, 11:59 AM:
 
Although I can move a print by myself I believe that the "best method" is to use 2 people and the 'pizza board.'

In the case of a loose rewind (and no pizza board) I have been known to lift the whole platter disc and carry the print on that.
 

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Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 12-31-2003, 12:44 PM:
 
I've seen the donut board used, made from 1/8" Masonite, smooth shiny side up. One guy took an old shopping cart and built adjustable legs on a platform attached to it so he can easily slide the print-and-donut from any level platter onto the cart and off he goes. The adjustable-height cart comes in really handy when you get a surprise move and the print is on the "wrong" platter level.

In another move subject, I once had to pick up a print from a nearby 10-plex and I took my 6000' reels over and rewound his show onto my reels and "bicycled" them home. Nice and handy too, all I had to do was add my trailers when I got back to my theatre! (Thanks Mark, it worked great!)
 

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Posted by Scott Manley (Member # 867) on 12-31-2003, 02:52 PM:
 
Thanks William.......We had a similar board at one of the Presidio theaters back in the 80's.I had forgotten about it.

Happy New Year!!!!
 

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Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 12-31-2003, 06:19 PM:
 
I agree Michael as I also have Kinoton platters and also impressed with the way they handle film and very happy with the Kinoton make up tables,But I agree with John even though the film is wound tight the risk of it collapsing is there,It pays to use a doughnut to move prints if no trolley is available.In our case we are lucky that we have adjustable trolley to move our prints around which makes the task so much easier especially the heavy prints like L.O.T.R. I understand that due to the lay out of some bio's it isnt practicle to use a trolley if you have separate Bio boxs in different parts of the complex.

One person carrying prints around could also be a O.H&S issue which impacts the way we do things now.

Steve
 

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Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 12-31-2003, 07:10 PM:
 
I should have mentioned previously that one must exercise caution when moving any print. Some film stock simply won't take up well, no matter what system is used, and these prints must be moved in a sleeve (or other safe method). The same applies to prints that have just had their first application of FilmGuard - these prints may not necessarily be safe to pick up either.

Any movie which is 2 1/2 hours (or longer) starts to get too heavy to move on one's own anyway, so I agree that those prints are best moved using more kosher methods.

So, yes...one must evaluate each print carefully before proceeding. Stephen, I'm glad you appreciate those make-up tables. A sensational design!
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 12-31-2003, 09:52 PM:
 
The best way would probably be to use the Goldberg Platter reel or jsut move the entire platter deck, but those methods are not always practical.

I just use a board and slide the print off the platter onto it. What I wuld like is a cart that has telescopic legs so that it can be raised or lowered to each deck.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-31-2003, 10:07 PM:
 
Often moving the platter deck will cause a major platter timing issue
The best method still is
clamps
piece of masonite for it to lie on
platter reel
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-31-2003, 10:09 PM:
 

quote:

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Often moving the platter deck will cause a major platter timing issue

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The make of the platter is really in-material, a platter is a platter if operated as the manufacture prescribes not as the operator wishes to use it

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Gordon, that's not the point. You said that some platters will go out of time if the deck is removed. I stated that was not the case with the better platters out there. There are many instances where it is desirable to move the entire deck and your warning is a good thing for people to know about so they can at bare minimum make sure the decks get back to their original location if there is no other way to move the print. Regardless, platters that are affected by a deck swap are lousy designs.

Chris, that's for a SPECO. You can try skipping the second roller at the top of the elevator, but make sure you test with junk film first. Also beware that if the print is stressed when wound extra-tight like that, you risk putting cinch scratches throughout the movie. I wouldn't recommend it. The Strongs wind reasonably tight enough whereas the late model SPECO LP270s do not.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-31-2003, 11:57 PM:
 
Purchasing department pitch....save money, move the deck instead of buying film clamps.....I have sold many replacement decks due to this faulty logic
 

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Posted by Marcial Feliciano Ramos (Member # 1989) on 01-01-2004, 12:25 AM:
 
We usually move the whole platter disk if the movie is too big and its a bit loose. If the print is regular, we use clamps and move it between two persons.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 01-01-2004, 12:53 AM:
 
Most platters in Puerto Rico are Strong / Potts / Xetron and a few rare Christies...so platter deck swapping is common.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-01-2004, 07:41 AM:
 
If you elect to move a print by taking the whole platter deck with it, be damn sure to check the bearings and spacers on the center spindle and make sure they are back the way they are supposed to be.

I have seen too many people who move platter decks and don't check. They'll end up with two bearings on one deck and no bearings on the other. It only causes more problems than you solve later on down the road. I have had to repair/replace more parts on platters because of this than I care to remember.

90% of the time, I say it's best to clamp the print and move it that way. The only time I would even think about moving the whole deck is when there is no other way to do it safely, such as when the print is too big to fit the clamps you have.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-01-2004, 01:21 PM:
 
I think you should break the print down, put it back in the cases (don't forget the bands) and walk it over to the next screen. Better yet, give it back to TES so they can supply another one. That way you can have one that has been Integrity Inspected.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-01-2004, 06:30 PM:
 
The method using round "cookie sheets" is the easiest and probably the best for the print. The print takes up onto the cookie sheet (which is placed upon a platter deck and held in place by the center ring (there are holes for the pins). The whole thing (print, ring, and cookie sheet) can then be lifted up and moved easily by one person. If one forgot to take up onto the cookie sheet, it would slide easily under a print at a later time if the platters have removable "brains."

My objection to clamps is that they almost invariably scratch the platter deck when the print is moved by one person and also that some films are too short to be clamped (for long films, check out Brad's method in the "tips" section--it really works).

I would never think to move the whole platter deck. It would require at least two people and seems like more effort than just using clamps. Never mind what it would do to the bearings (which can't be good, as others have mentioned).
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-01-2004, 06:41 PM:
 
None of my platters (Christie AW3R) have ever "lost timing" as a result of moving one of the decks.

I don't know what would happen if we TRADED decks around but I'm only talking about removing and replacing a deck. Never had an issue.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-01-2004, 06:48 PM:
 
Manny, no rim drive platter design will. Only platters that require for the motor to "push" up against the deck suffer from that design flaw.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-01-2004, 08:07 PM:
 
Brad,

Strong platters suffer from this design flaw. I've already found this out and had to chnage my print moving policy as a result. It took a while, but eventually, we had platters that would slip, were out of time, etc.. due to the 'swap the platter' method.

I did, however, make sure that the operators were aware that they had to check the bearings each swap to make sure they were intact prior to setting a platter back down on the support arm spindle.

Now, if they must move a platter, they remove the platter- take it to the next tree it's being moved to - pull the center ring up out of the retaining holes and sliup the print on to the new platter. We have learned that with two people this method seems to be ideal for moving those long prints that can't be clipped with 'swap-a-roos'.
 

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 01-02-2004, 12:22 AM:
 
Longest print I ever tried to move? Gods and Generals, nearly 4 hours long plus trailers. Thought I'd be clever and do it with no clamps, no cookie sheets - those are for squares. It had to go up two flights of stairs, and it nearly killed me - getting it off the old platter wasn't too bad, but getting it on the new one was REALLY a problem - thing nearly collapsed on me, and I resorted to using a plank as a sort of ramp. I did it, though wouldn't recommend pulling this stunt on a regular basis.
 

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Posted by David Whitbeck (Member # 894) on 01-02-2004, 01:14 AM:
 
We usually just get two people and carry the print to whatever screen we're going to. We also a have a "print mover" named Bad Action. It has 4 "shelves" with two holes drilled into them for the rings to fit into. The shelves fit right in the middle of the AW3 decks so you can fit it throught those tight spaces in the booth. You just slide a print off the platter and onto BA then role it to the next screen and slide it onto the platter there. It's pretty reliable, even if the thing is heavy as hell.
Something we did back where I used to work was use film. When we'd transfer a print from one theatre to the other a few miles up the road we'd just strap it up with some old trailers. Tape one end to the top of the print, wrap the film around a few times, pull tight, and tape the other end down. Very reliable, if not ghetto. WE also had some straps that were much like backpack straps that did about the same as the film, these were really good because the were really quick and held very tightly.
 

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Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-02-2004, 04:00 AM:
 
All our prints sit on 5mm Masonite donuts.The centre circle of the donut has cutaways in it to support the centre ring so it can't fall through(the lugs on the rings are long enough to pass through the cutaways in the donut and into the holes in the platter deck).We have two different style rings(AW3 & Speco)and the donuts can be used with either one.We can move a print very easily with two people, once the tail has a small piece of tape on it to hold it.We put the print and the donut onto the platter(good on the AW3 which does not have a removable Brain) and run the print back onto another donut on the take-up.This isolates the print from the metal platter deck and I have always thought that this could have been the cause of some "static" brain wraps.Since I started using Filmguard static,brain wraps,dirty gates are a thing of the past.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2004, 07:22 AM:
 

quote:

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This isolates the print from the metal platter deck and I have always thought that this could have been the cause of some "static" brain wraps.Since I started using Filmguard static,brain wraps,dirty gates are a thing of the past.

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I would never think to move the whole platter deck. It would require at least two people and seems like more effort than just using clamps. Never mind what it would do to the bearings (which can't be good, as others have mentioned).

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But, Scott --

Moving a print is a "two man job" in the first place. Even with clamps.

Note that I'm only in favor of moving the whole platter if the print is loose wound ... a situation where clamps won't do much good.

And, yes, we *do* have to be careful to keep track of the bearing and those rings. With the Christie, I find that it's really just the top ring that comes off with the disc. In my experience, the bearing and the lower ring tend to stay put.

Again, I'm not swapping platter discs. Just using one to carry a funky print over to another platter. Slide the print off and return the "carry" disc back from whence it came.

Man, oh man! Those clamps will indeed leave their mark on a platter deck.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2004, 01:59 PM:
 
We move prints between houses several times a day especially on the weekend. We always just have two people slide the print off and carry it to the destination platter. If a print is especially loose, then we may decide to use clamps.

In extreme circumstances, we may opt to move the entire platter deck. In those cases, we move the whole deck to the new location, and set the deck on top of one of those large round trash cans. Then one guy holds the deck in place while the other guy slides the print from one platter directly to the other. Then the old deck is taken back to its original location. We did this when we had to move LOTR through a really tight spot for example because it was too risky to carry a print that size through a walk way with only about two feet of clearance.

Whatever you do, I suggest you do NOT get in the habit of taping down the tail of the print while you move it. Someday, someone will forget they did that, and you'll end up with a tail wrap in the brain at the end of the show.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-02-2004, 02:23 PM:
 
I've seen far more damage to a print during it's move because the tail was not taped down while it was being carried then the damage caused by the tail of the film getting jammed in the brain because someone forgot to remove the tape once the print was to it's destination platter. So long as you are adding the "mandatory" additional tail leader, it would only chew up the extra junk you put on the tail anyway.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-02-2004, 03:38 PM:
 
What is a "print doughnut"?
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-02-2004, 03:55 PM:
 
The extra doughnut that you buy and tell yourself you won't eat.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2004, 09:34 PM:
 
By "doughnut", we mean a flat round piece of plywood, Masonite, plastic, or other material with an outer diameter of about 52 inches (like the platter), with a large round hole in the center that fits over the platter center feed mechanism (or "brain").
 

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Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 01-03-2004, 04:01 AM:
 
In our theater we use a "half" of a goldberg reel platter, and after tape the tail on the rest of the film, we "slip" all the print on this plate. This method is verry easy to move a print from a screen to another.
I heard that Cinemeccanica made a "transport table" consist in a plate where the print is firmly clampet onto it, a pivot to place the plate vertically and rollers to move the entire unit from place to place, but I never see pictures about it.
 

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Posted by Rob van Ede (Member # 1457) on 01-03-2004, 04:18 AM:
 
We move prints all the time, as we have more prints than auditoria. Most of the time the schedules are very tight (think 5 to 10 minutes, i know it's bad but can do nothing about it) and of course between the shows all the staff is needed at the lobby. Our Ernemann platters wind relatively tight, so it's no problem to move a print without clamps or other help. Only the very large prints like LOTR need help from a piece of hardboard and a colleague. In more than three years, i've never had a film fall apart.

If the piece of tape at the end of the print is forgotten, the failsafe takes care of this, and no damage has ever happened over here. Removing it is a routine thing, just like cleaning the gate before each show or unlocking the door so customers can enter if you ask me.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-03-2004, 10:01 AM:
 

quote:

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I've seen far more damage to a print during it's move because the tail was not taped down while it was being carried then the damage caused by the tail of the film getting jammed in the brain because someone forgot to remove the tape once the print was to it's destination platter.

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I thought about the fact that the tail could get damaged either way not long after I posted that - but I was away from my computer, and it was too late to edit it. The fact is you DO have to secure the tail somehow when you move it. It's just always been my experience that taping it was the wrong way to do it. However I've never considered the "mandatory extra tail leader" idea tho... but I'm considering it now!
 

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