Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Which Model Projector

This is topic Which Model Projector in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-23-2004, 06:01 PM:

I need to know the model of this projector which is connected to the soundhead in my previous post and if parts are still available.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-23-2004, 06:07 PM:

Looks like a Simplex X-L (PR-1014) with Kelmar turret modification. The original version would have had a single lens holder. The PR-1014 is a current model and parts are definitely available from Strong. No idea on the Kelmar modification; it looks like the gate and trap are completely different from the original Simplex design.

Posted by Mike Perju (Member # 1482) on 01-23-2004, 09:20 PM:

That is a 1014 with a Kelmar turret; they had to have the front of the machine cut out. You can find out more about it on Kelmar's website. It also has a Kelmar curved gate and a automatic apt. plate changer. The gate is a payne in the ass to thread, is prety loud, and produces a shaky picture.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-24-2004, 02:06 AM:

I was going to say, the gate looks unusual. But you just explained it. But why replace the original gate?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-24-2004, 02:06 AM:

Mike,
I regularly retrofit just the Kelmar gates onto straight gate Simplex's and have had only good results with them. They don't fall apart like the Simplex's do And they only have about 1/10th the amount of parts as is found in a Simplex assy.

There are two minor mods that need to be done to it before I install it. The first is to replace that spring on the rail that makes it pop open with a bit lighter spring. The next is to do a slight mod to the latch mechanism to keep r closing soo far...it almost pinches the film at the input and output ends! The ewasy adjustment will increase the clearance at the input and output ends of the gate. The first mod makes it alot easier to close with just your fingers and the second mod makes it run alot quieter and reduces needless tension on the film.

The Century version can be used as is. There are no minor things that need to be done to it.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Ian Bailey (Member # 1752) on 01-24-2004, 03:00 AM:

Mark
What do you do to the latch mechanism to stop it closing so far?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-24-2004, 02:42 PM:

Those turrets are a POS
they can't be watter cooled and air cooled have major focus issues with anything over 2.5K lamps
Also many lens will not work in the turret due to length

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 01-24-2004, 04:28 PM:

Hey Mark-

I have two of those rebuilds on Centurys and one of them (scope lens) is just slightly out of alignment (verticle). What's the trick to getting it just right? I don't have a manual to go with it, and a check in the manuals section (Kelmar SA Century Upgrades) didn't provide any instruction.

Would appreciate your expetise.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-24-2004, 09:26 PM:

it is a very simple course alignement loosen the large allen screw and the lens will wooble around till you get it where you would like it and then lock it down

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-24-2004, 11:50 PM:

"they can't be watter cooled "

Gord,
Try thnkig positive about a product just once..... Sure it can be done and it only takes a small amount of inginuity to do it. Water cooling a Kelmar gate assy is an easy thing to do. Very similar to water cooling an X-L trap. We have them operating day in and day out on 4K lamps here in SLC. Resolution is close to 80 line pairs across the screen with a Schneider Super Cinelux. Not bad by any standard and probably about what that lens is capable of! I'll certinaly continue to use them and have done so since they came out.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 01-25-2004, 12:34 AM:

According to Andy Marglin ( The "Mar" of Kelmar ) the machined aircraft aluminum is more tolerant to heat than the more common brass used in other traps. We installed many with 3 and 4 kw with cold reflectors with no problems. Mounting a water jacket is no sweat. Lens problems while threading can be solved by jogging the lens partial cycle to clear and can be done as a easy modification if required.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-25-2004, 10:05 AM:

Remember Mark, what "lenses" our guy Gordy uses though...Snake ore and other "brands."

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-25-2004, 02:43 PM:

Ahhh yes, Snake-Ore. I sometimes find both out in the desert. Snakes and Ore. I love the desert and its vastness ...its such a cool place to explore and the last great frontier to show a film outdoors.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-25-2004, 02:59 PM:

lets see you put a magnacom on the flat lens in one then
As for what brand of lens a turret shouldn't be brand specific either
The biggest issues I have had with lens in them were with short focallength schnieders

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-25-2004, 06:44 PM:

I love my Kelmar gates and lens turrets! [thumbsup]

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 01-25-2004, 11:16 PM:

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with the Thumbs Down crowd on this one. I've worked with both the Simplex and Century variety and in both cases the origional gate/trap designs seem to do a much better job. My biggest beef with them is maintaining a steady picture. They don't seem to be consistant from one show to the next unless you say consistantly bad. And they also are a pain in the ass to close when you're threading them. in general they just suck.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 01-27-2004, 06:14 AM:

Gordon, if there are major focus issues with a Kelmar turret and aperture conversion on a Century or Simplex with a big lamp, I would suggest the units are not installed correctly or there are problems in the light path.

At our drive-in, the Lunar in Melbourne, Australia, we run a Century DAW with Kelmar turret and aperture conversion on our smallest screen. The lamphouse is a Strong Super 80 and we operate a 5K lamp at the rated current 135 - 150 amps. We have a very steady image on our 80ft screen with good depth of field for focus and excellent light.

The image compares very favourably with our other two larger fields where we run Philips/Norelco AA2's in original spec. again with Strong lamphouses.

Ian, all parts for the Simplex and Kelmar can be purchased through your local Atlab Image and Sound branch.

David

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-27-2004, 02:50 PM:

We had had Dick Prather do the conversion and I trust his machine work to a T [thumbsup]

Also in a drivein your lens focal length would be much longer so backfocus would be less of an issue

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-27-2004, 09:33 PM:

While I too would trust Dicks work to a tee, but the front end mount has to be set up properly with the Kelmar jigs for everything to work correctly. If it was not or if something happened in shipping then it could be out of alignment. Its actually far better to keep all the work for mounting a Kelmar Turrett to local capable people so nothing can be compromised. Or even better do it right in the theatre and align first with the Kelmar jigs and then double check and tweek it with the Schneider equipment. This way minor corrections can be made for best overall focus.
Mark

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-27-2004, 09:44 PM:

Greg wrote:

quote:
I've worked with both the Simplex and Century variety and in both cases the origional gate/trap designs seem to do a much better job. My biggest beef with them is maintaining a steady picture. They don't seem to be consistant from one show to the next unless you say consistantly bad.

Why would you prefer the original gates/traps if they don't provide a steady picture? [Confused]