Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Any concerns I should have about the following equipment?

This is topic Any concerns I should have about the following equipment? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 01-27-2004, 02:28 PM:

I may have the opportunity to purchase the following.

Westrex 2001-E3 w/westrex soundhead.

Century C w/R5 Sound hd.

Century CC w R5

Christie Console models Ch10-CC9 & CH10-09
Is the Westrex a Century in disguise?
What year vintage would the console's be?
Any concerns I should have about parts avail, relibility, or any other quirks?
Thanks

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-27-2004, 02:38 PM:

The wetrex is the british built version of the century and some but not all parts are interchangable
Most of the screws are metric and the gear pitch is often different
they are a better built machine typically
Later they became Westar after Litton who owned the name westrex sold the company
The current westars are made up from OEM parts I beleive from various sub manufacturers

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-27-2004, 08:31 PM:

The consoles are mid-70s to mid-80's vintage, and take a max bulb wattage of 1000W, the power supply cannot reliably power a bulb larger than that.

Don't waste your money on the Christie 'CH-series' consoles, they are truly crap. Whenever we strip out theatres we usually leave the old-style Christie lamphouses and consoles there. The 'CK' consoles are slightly better (changes in optics) but even those aren't as good, IMO, as a Strong, Kneisley, or SLx-series Christie.

The Century C and CC (double-shutter version of the C) and the R5 reproducers are good machines, but I would recommend a full rebuild if they have been service for more than 5 years of continuous service...

-Aaron

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-27-2004, 09:21 PM:

Since I do believe in equipment recycling I completely disagree with Aaron on the console issue. While the optical design of the Ch and CK consoles is a century old comparatively this is a console that is also completely upgradable to current optical standards with the Christie Plenum kit for a price far, far lower than a new Christie, or any other console. The Christie rectifier being made today is essentially unchanged except for some very minor things, and is one of the best ectifiers ever made!! Also its a good idea to actually check what reflector is in these as depending on what chain had this equipment there may actually be Strong Super Lum-Ex conversions already in them. Those are somewhat passable, but nowhere comparable to what the Christie Plenum kit will do. Why throw out a perfectly good rectifier, console frame, etc. All you need throw out is everything on top and replace it with new.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 01-27-2004, 09:46 PM:

I have a set of those CH consoles and the light output improved dramatically with a careful alignment using an Align-O-Tron kit.

Better than nothing.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 01-29-2004, 11:05 AM:

Aaron, what is it that you don't like about the Ch consoles?
Is it the light output? I've seen these in action, and they seemed to do a very good job.

Mark, how can I tell which reflector is in them?
Thanks all.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-29-2004, 12:20 PM:

They are mechanically flimsy, especially the hand dowser assembly. EVERY one of the CH/CK consoles or lamphouses I have seen have damaged or missing hand dowsers (the scissors-type assembly)

The light output for a given wattage is horrible (even when properly aligned) compared to a Strong, Kneisley, or SLx Christie. The only lamps that are worse are CFS consoles.

The [stock Christie] reflectors turn yellow with time and it affects the light quality.

Early Christie power supplies (2K and up) suck, IMO.

If these have the Ringgold/Strong retrofit kit in them the light quality and output should be better than the stock optics. You can tell if it has the Strong reflector by looking at it. The Christie reflector is a deep-dish unit and will likely be titnted yellow by now, while the Strong reflector has a shallower 'dish' to it and should be bright and silvery. The lamphouse should have a tag attached to it somewhere that specifies it was modified, and lists the Strong reflector part # for replacement .

-Aaron

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2004, 09:14 PM:

Aaron, With the exception of some very minor stuff in the new rectifiers the old units are identical sans cooling fan under the heat sinks. Broken dowsers are all repairable quite easily. Although we always fix the dowsers when we do a upgrade in reality very few of our customers actually ever use them.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Bevan Wright (Member # 1884) on 01-29-2004, 10:27 PM:

Hate to say it but Mark is right on this one. [Wink]

Performance-wise, once you do the Phoenix kit upgrade, and clean/tighten all power supply and igniter connections, there is no difference between a CH-upgrade and a SLC20 (performance-wise). Structurally/mechanically ... that is a different story.

Aaron, the 'yellow' color you mention is the dichroic coatings...which typically don't change color. The coatings are designed to cut the far ends of the visible spectrum. And depending on the quality of the coating may be shifted slightly higher (blue-ish) or lower (yellow-ish) in color - which often varies from batch-to-batch and vacuum chamber operator-to-operator. Due to the deep nature of the stock reflector and the resultant angles at which the coating gets applied, they do appear a bit 'yellow'. When the coatings fail they get crazed (milky or fine cracks) and peel, usually due to the over-expansion (over-heating) of the nickle substrate.

[ 01-30-2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Bevan Wright ]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-30-2004, 12:34 PM:

Mark is allowed to be right once per year so now he can go back being wrong [Big Grin]

never had much grief out of christie rectifiers especially with the fan on the stack as cooling is usualy the culprit in most rectifier failures
the only area I have had grief was with the boost supply coupling on some of the older ones and the high low switch sometimes shorting [Mad]

on the real old ones

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2004, 05:26 PM:

In several instances we have installed the 4kw diodes and fibreglass spacer bars in the 2 and 3K units to prevent heat related failures. There are a few booths out here that get so hot in the summer that any air conditioning brought in is simply for naught. Fans added to the rectifiers were just moving hot air around. The 4K diodes have completely alleviated those locations with heat problems.

Mark @ CLACO