Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: old projectionist memorabilia

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Posted by Katherine Kendrick Sheridan-Barbian (Member # 2047) on 01-30-2004, 11:45 PM:

In search of old projectionist memorabilia/photographs (1890-1980) for a documentary film that sheds light on the history and development of film projection as a craft and tells the story of a few operating projectionists in America who struggle to resist the dawn of digital projection.

Needed:

-Pictures of projectionists inside projection booth
-Any memorabilia (ie: union cards, personal posters etc.)
-Old projectionist booth pictures (1890-1920)
-Pictures of itinerant movie palaces, projectionists who traveled with the circus-- memorabilia.
-Any obsure films (ie: not Cinema Paradiso) that deal with projectionists in any way.

If you have anything that fits the above descriptions or anything else that you think might be helpful in preserving the legacy of the film projectionist on 16mm please email: ks742@columbia.edu

For more information visit:
www.behindtheglass.com

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-31-2004, 04:06 AM:

What "dawn of digital projection"?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-31-2004, 06:06 AM:

My favourite obscure projectionist movie is Clash by Night (1953, Fritz Lang) which also, incidentally, features Marilyn Monroe's first screen appearance in a supporting role. The projectionist is, sadly, a mentally unstable perpetrator of domestic violence - not the greatest advert for the profession!

I take it Sherlock, Jnr. does not count as obscure. In Gremlins (1984, Joe Dante), little furry animals take over a projection booth and provide a demonstration of 'film done wrong' similar to one of Joe Redifer's training videos.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 01-31-2004, 11:14 AM:

[puke]

MMM...Digital...

The (Digital) Revolution will not be televised. (It will however be filmed.)

If you want good stuff just search google for a few film collector websites. That's all I can add. Sorry [Smile]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-31-2004, 11:19 AM:

I recommend looking around the attics of older theatres. You never know what you'll find. I've found lots of stuff in places like that: old spare parts, film (yes, even nitrate in good condition!), trade journals, film inspection reports from the '30s, magazines, catalogs, etc.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-31-2004, 11:46 AM:

If "projectionists in America who struggle to resist the dawn of digital projection." is the theme of this documentary then obviously someone seriously has not done her homework on the topic. That is just so far from reality that it leaves most of us dumbfounded.

No one is out there struggling to stave off digital projection. At the moment the digital systems in the field are a drop in the bucket, do not present a picture comparable to good film projection (once you get past the "it's digital so it must be better" BS), take many hours of technician time to load a new movie on, and have economics so bad that the several major companies which sought to enter the field of providing them to theatres have since left the business or scaled back their operations to existing units. None of that jives with your thesis.

That is not to say that digital will not have a significant impact in the future--it will. But if you are dealing with current reality I would suggest a different angle.

How about how being a projectionist used to be a skilled craft that people could count on as a career with decent wages, often protected (yes, some would say enforced) by unions. Then carbon arc lamps of limited run time and somewhat dangerous operation were replaced with xenon lamps of relatively unlimited run time. That in turn begat handling film as a single strand via platters or giant reel machines enabling single projectors per screen instead of 2-projector changeover, greatly reducing labor-per-show requirements and enabling relatively unattended operation with simple automation taking care of routine tasks like dimming the lights. That in turn made the multiplex theatre feasible but also allowed minimally skilled people to do the work or for the job to be handled by managers. Thus began the long downslide in projection as a craft. Now it's largely done by young people who do not view it as a long term profession nor can they given the typical wages paid.

There is a story there that should be told and it makes more sense to document reality and record historic fact than to speculate about the future. Even if it comes to pass that digital projection eliminates every projectionist job the story will be less interesting than what has happened up until now simply because these are no longer career positions being eliminated. If McDonalds someday automates the back room and the burgers are cooked, finished, and wrapped by robotic devices the job loss would be less interesting than, say, robots on the auto assembly lines eliminating high wage, career jobs for auto workers. In other words, the most interesting stuff has already happened and would make for a good documentary.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 01-31-2004, 12:58 PM:

"...What "dawn of digital projection"?..."

Sunset of digital projection? [Confused]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-31-2004, 01:13 PM:

"The projectionist is, sadly, a mentally unstable perpetrator of domestic violence - not the greatest advert for the profession!"
_________________________________________________________________

Well, Thats not too far off as per what happened recently to the union in Chicago.....

http://www.ipsn.org/indictments/projectionist_union/brenkus11-7_rel.htm

"then obviously someone seriously has not done her homework on the topic

She has way too many last names to have been able to do her homework. Lets face it, the sunrise of digital projection has been very dim to say the least.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-31-2004, 01:47 PM:

From "Behind The Glass":

"...However, it is predicted that by 2005, a majority of mainstream movie houses in the US will have made the transition [to digital projection], spelling the end of the motion picture projectionist"

They have been saying this since 1999: just change '2005' to '2001', '2002', '2003'...

If even the (once?) mighty George Lucas couldn't 'impose' his 'vision' of the digital nightmare upon us en masse, I don't think anyone will for many years to come.

Someone needs to get their head out of the digital clouds and do some additional research on the MODERN motion picture projectionist: We may be far smaller in numbers than 30-40 years ago, but we certainly aren't extinct!!!

Just my .02

-Aaron

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-31-2004, 04:01 PM:

I wonder where people still get the basis for statements like "it is predicted that by 2005..." etc, while virtually everyone in the business knows by now that the "digital revolution" didn`t take place and will not take place any time soon.
Of course, it is always easy to make such broad statements and then say "oh, these people don`t want to see the truth because they are film fans or because it is about their jobs". But we actually have 6 digital projectors in San Diego, I think that is about the the highest concentration of digital systems in the world. Boeing who set up the systems gave up and bailed out. We will still be able to use them in the future, but right now they are just sitting there while we work out the logistics.
It really doesn`t look like the digital revolution happens next year.

The topic change suggested by Mr Kraus would be much closer to the truth, but I bet it will be ignored - it is much more complex and also less "dramatic" than to predict the end of film once more. It is the general tendency to fast, cheap business without any regard for quality which brought the end to conventional cinema projection.

Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 02-02-2004, 12:47 AM:

Aaron....1999 !?!?!? How about this from 1930: "With this successful experiment, the technical arrangements are virtually complete for projecting on normal-sized motion picture screens... Television will be a regular feature in large theaters before the new year."
[see http://www.dcinematoday.com/gallery/start.htm ,click "1930 GE"]

Michael....you ask "where people still get the basis for statements like 'it is predicted that by 2005...' ". The answer is: from the never-ending BS-filled press releases from the video projector manufacturers. IMHO these companies couldn't care less about our industry; they just want to be able to advertise that their home/business video stuff "uses the same technology as top motion picture theatres"; thus (they hope)allowing them to sell zillions more low quality high profit boxes. When the market saturates they'll drop these products and move on to whatever is hot at that time.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-02-2004, 12:53 AM:

quote:
projectionists in America who struggle to resist the dawn of digital projection

I think the biggest construction made there to create a romanticized & saleable tale is that today most projectionists in the US are near-minimum wage employees who come in, punch a clock, & are unconcerned with what kind of machine they run at the job - digital, film, electrical, steam, blue buttons, red buttons, whatever.

You need to go to a large sample of theaters & see how it works not so much technically, but organizationally, employee-wise, & not create a mythos. I am continually confronted with & amazed at how many folks undertake & have a personal stake in a romanticization of a technology understood not even superficially, from nostalgia to flying-cars futurism.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-02-2004, 08:59 AM:

Here's the "Chronology of Kodak Motion Picture Films" on the Kodak website:

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/about/chrono4.shtml

Kodak Digital Cinema:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/digital/

The views of Richard Sehlin, Chief Technology Officer of Kodak Entertainment Imaging:

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/products/v2/sehlin.shtml

Last year was the best ever for Kodak Entertainment Imaging, with over 10 BILLION feet of film sold. About 70% of Kodak Entertainment Imaging R&D is still for FILM related programs, with several new Kodak VISION2 films introduced, and more in the pipeline.

Today, there are over 100,000 35mm film theatres in the world, and only a few hundred theatres equipped for "Digital Cinema".

There are still significant issues that need to be resolved and business issues that need to be negotiated:

http://www.natoonline.org/DigitalCinemaSecurityLetterv.pdf

http://www.natoonline.org/digitalcinemauserreq.htm

http://www.natoonline.org/digitalcinemaletter.htm

http://www.mpaa.org/dcinema/

http://www.mkpe.com/articles/index.htm

http://www.mkpe.com/cinema/standards.htm

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 02-02-2004, 02:55 PM:

I like how everytime there's some kind of article, film, show, or what not, regarding projectionists and the "impending digital age", operators are always handled with kid gloves as these tragic "sad clown" figures that the world is leaving behind, never accounting for all of us who make sure to stay on top of new technologies to make our jobs and the entire moviegoing experience the best they can possibly be.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-02-2004, 03:13 PM:

Those pundits also look at Kodak as a "buggy whip manufacturer", forgetting that Kodak is a leader in digital and hybrid imaging technology, as well as FILM technology. Yet they complain when Kodak shifts emphasis to digital imaging in some markets, or decides to invest some of its' generous dividend payments into digital imaging.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/researchDevelopment/techProdHighlights.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2/8/12&pq-locale=en_US

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 02-05-2004, 01:32 PM:

Leo -

Did you confuse "sadly" with "typically "??

Cant you remember Neil ?
Or borderline Nick ?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-05-2004, 01:55 PM:

My lips are discretely sealed! But they'd both seem positively mundane compared to The Projectionist...

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-06-2004, 08:39 AM:

I must say, considering that Kodak is a major mover in developing digital imaging technologies and has staked out its role in this technology, I have never read anything coming out of the company, be it press releases or technical discussions about digital imaging that come anywhere near the outlandish and quite frankly incredible that just seem to be flying out of TI and of course with the assist of George Lucas. In contrast, Kodak's statements always seem balanced and sober. I guess their history and corporate culture would preclude anyone from Kodak to be bashing film! Even when they are talking about the benefits of digital imaging, there is always a reverence for film that is quite palpable (as it should be).

Both TI and to a lesser extent Huges, and even the George The Great, seem to have gone mercifully mute of late, but I won't soon forget the nonsense that they were spouting about the death of film only a few years ago. What made it worse, was that in their never-ending quest for the overly dramatic and the titilating, the news media just picked up this hogwash and regurgitated it nearly verbatum, as if it were
a fact, never bothering to do any real investigating or talk to people in the field.

I recall hearing a piece broadcast on CBS News Radio here in NY, around the first STAR WARS "event of the century" as Lucas called it. I believe this "news" item was networked to their entire O&O stations across the country, in which the newscaster simply stated as fact that within a year, half the theatres in the country would be showing digital movies (with the infuriating description that we have all heard so often, that digital movies will look as good the last time they are run as they did the first....so unlike dirty, scratchy, JITTERY film -- digital is ROCK STEADY!) But the "report" didn't stop there; it then went on to proclaim that in TWO years, film as we know it would be gone. I remember yelling back at the car radio a string of cuss words that need no repeating here -- you all know them.

So how does the general public get these blatantly erronious ideas about where digital is going and how fast and its so-called benefits? Simple: it's the half-assed media which will say anything if it is "exciting" and dramatic and which they can get easily without a lot of footwork -- like sticking a microphone in front of the TI publicist and taking an interview with a guy whose job it is to SELL a product -- now THERE'S an unbiased viewpoint. Once they've got a sound bite, who cares where it comes from or if it is given to then by a biased party or if it is accurate or even if it is fiction. Much like the way they cover what's happening in the government.

Rant over....until the next time I hear any more of this BS.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 02-06-2004, 01:59 PM:

I wonder if Katherine can use an old projectionist?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-06-2004, 02:32 PM:

Let me tell you my little story...

When I got out of college in 1992 I came home to Erie and worked as a TV salesman of a local store. I would get a fair number of customers who would come in espousing the virtues of digital/Hi-Def television and saying things like, "In a few years you won't have a job selling these "Old Fashioned" TVs anymore.

I would look them right in the face and tell them that digital TV is bullcrap and that it would be at LEAST 20 years until digital TV was commonplace. That was 12 years ago and digital TV has barely gotten a toe hold. The only reason that is happening, in my opinion, is because of the development (and marketing) of plasma displays. I can't imagine digital TV being commonplace for at least another 10 years. Probably longer.

Right here. Right now. I'm going to make the same prediction: It'll be no less than 10 years (and likely closer to 20-25 years) before digital movies in theaters are common. Furthermore, I say it will take the development of a totally new technology (even different than what has been developing in DLP) to make it a reality.

Now, to contrast TV and film's transition to the "digital age" you'll have to remember that the technology of television broadcasting has been through a series of compromises such that it's high time improvements be made. With film, although changes have been made to improve the technology, the basic premise has stayed the same for over 100 years. You can take a reel of film from 50 or even 100 years ago, make some relatively minor modifications and run it through a modern movie projector. Just try taking some old tapes of the Johnny Carson Show and broadcasting them on television in France. Sure it can be done if you muck around with it but not like you can with film.

I think digital video is cool but I don't think it's ready for Prime Time... Not any time soon.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-06-2004, 02:46 PM:

Interesting. Digital terrestrial television (broadcast as PAL MPEG-2 streams) has taken off in a big way here over the last two years or so. But the technology used to deliver it to people's homes are so-called 'digiboxes', which receive the signal, convert it to analogue and then pipe it into an existing telly via a Euroconnector or RF lead.

TV sets with built in digital decoders, let alone those which actually form the display digitally, are still nowhere to be seen.