Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Portable 35mm Projector?

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 02-03-2004, 01:15 PM:

Does this actually exist? What kind of wiring, ventilation, lamp (xenon, wattage), etc. does it require? Price range?

Thank-you!

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-03-2004, 01:41 PM:

There is a picture of one of my MP-30's here:

MP30 Portable 35mm Projector

On eBay now (not my auction):

Westar Portable 35mm Projector

Projectors such as these normally go for between $1500 and $2500.

/Mitchell

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 02-03-2004, 02:04 PM:

I know about 3 portable 35mm projectors
-Zeiss Jena
-Philips (FP2 orFP3, don't remember model right now)
-AVE/shinkio (Don't know wich one came first and wich one is the clone, both looks just the same to me)
There is also a Russian portable that is nearly a clone of hte Zeiss Jena.

All of these projectors uses halogen bulbs ( like the ones used in 16m/m machines) and have separate sound system, originally a tube amp and photocell, converted to solid state by most of the owners. the Zeiss can be converted to stereo without too much trouble ( did that before for a friend),not sure about the AVE and the Philips.
Zeiss and philips have the bulb on the non operating side of it, the ave/shinkio on the back. I'm not sure if they can handle Xenon because the position of the lamphouse being on the side of the projector, and the ave/shinkio for having a shutter made of a material that looks like hard plastic.

These are the ones I know as being real portable projectors ( tho they're a bit heavy). There's the DeVry also, but they're bigger than these 3 I mentioned and many won't take that as a portable machine.If I remeber it right, Kinoton has a portable- like machine in their line also Wassman and Proyecson (SP??)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-03-2004, 03:47 PM:

Cinemecanica Prevost Veronesse Tokiwa also make portables

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-03-2004, 04:22 PM:

There are also some older portables, they do turn up for sale from time to time, fairly cheaply, but they tend to be very heavy, and not very bright. Simplex made a portable long ago, DeVry ones are still quite common, and there was the GBN. These normally used tungsten lamps, not halogen, though they could probably be converted, but bolt-on carbon arc lamphouses were available as an optional extra; this was before the days of xenon. I know somebody who still uses a DeVry portable, and parts for it were still available the last I heard, about three or four years ago.

If you want something that you really can move around fairly easily, you would be better off with something more modern. The Chineese made machines are good, and are available with halogen or xenon illumination, but they only have 2000 foot spool boxes, I'm not sure how easy they would be to convert to take something larger, I haven't looked at one that closely. You could probably adapt one to run with a tower or platter, but then the whole thing wouldn't be very portable.

There were several other modern portable machines available in the '70s when I worked in A.V., most of these took 6000 foot spools, and had small xenon lamps.

Portable 35mm machines were never very popular; in nitrate days portable projection wasn't easy to do, and by the time safety film became universal, and the fire regulations were relaxed, 16mm was well established for portable use. Far more portable 16mm machines were made than 35mm.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 02-03-2004, 04:52 PM:

There is also the Microcine/Rangertone portable 35 machine.

Most 35 portables are incandescent lit, a few come stock with xenon lamps, still others have xenon as an option.

All will take a 2000' reel, some can fit 6000' reels as well.

Many are quite heavy (especially those with a Xenon and standard non-switching power supply), compared to a 16mm.

-Aaron

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-03-2004, 06:51 PM:

Have yet to see a good decent portable 35mm machine and have seen them all. We have two of the Prevost machines at work....they are only so-so. I once owed a Tokiwa T60, it was a real piece of junk, VERY hard on film.

The best portable is to take a full size theatre projector with you where ever you need it. Either a Century or Simplex. My experience has been as such.... A toy machine will only give you so-so and inconsistant results but a pro machine will give you pro results! Its not that much work to move a pro machine around.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 02-03-2004, 10:25 PM:

Check with ICECO. They have a number of portables. Some new some from the 40s and 50s. www.iceco.com

Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 02-03-2004, 11:48 PM:

I had a Simplex portable, but I gave it up like giving a puppy to a "good home". It was from the '30s or earlier, I don't recall the model number. It was basically a big box, with a supply magazine (2000 ft.) bolted on top and the take-up magazine inside the box. It had a 1000w incandescent bulb. I checked with a local supplier and they could only locate two bulbs in the country that would work in it.

It was an interesting piece, but not something you'd want to put any film through that mattered. I used it to run "Teen Wolf" on the side of my neighbor's house every holloween. Like I said - not something to run a film that you actually care about. [Wink]

I finally gave it to another operator friend of mine who I knew would appreciate it.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2004, 12:30 AM:

Well, it is my understanding that DeVry made one for the military service. I had the displeasure of running one when I was in MPO school in San Diego in 1967. It was a POS. It had a free-wheeling holdback sprocket that was supposedly adjustable, and if it went on the fritz, it would just rip the living pergetory out of the sprocket perfs.

Now many swore at them, and some swore by them. To me, it was a real hunk of crap. Even Bell and Howell could have done better than that....as far as I was concerned, they all belonged in the trash masher. I would be the first to toss them there....and light a stick of dynamite to blow that sucker to you-know-where. [thumbsup]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 02-04-2004, 01:48 AM:

Holy Shit Paul! I think there will be umpteen people that will disagree with you on that one.

There are MANY DeVry projectors STILL in service in many screening rooms.

While NOT my favorite projector, they certainly have positively contributed to all the American GI's film enjoyment worldwide over the years.

That post sure sounds off-base and very bitter. [Confused]

>>> Phil

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 02-04-2004, 04:21 AM:

I hired a pair of JGS portables to do 8 sessions of Japanese Story at Newman (1200 kms north of Perth West Oz) in September.
These are of Chinese manufacture and performed very credibly even down to full blown stereo sound from the optical track.
Each had a 1kw xenon lamp with 2000' spool boxes and all packed into 6 foam boxes for safe travelling and were quite easy to setup and dismantle.
Image on screen very good, sound was quite surprising considering the tiny exciter lamp like about 4v 1 amp sized filament and change was very slick: A single press button behind the upper spool box just needed one press on change cue and over they went. Usual start motor on motor cue as per normal. The button switched the exciter over, snuffed the running xenon and fired the waiting xenon both being switched from the common power supply.
The down side was:
1. Noise... each lamp house had 2 fans and as soon as the system was powered up all 4 fans came on creating quite a drone. Really have to be in a bio box of some sort or in our case we fired out from a storeroom and we set up some office privacy screens as sound baffles and shot the image over the top. Most noise was kept back there.
2. Changes get a bit ragged as the lamps age as you rely upon the xenon firing first time every time for a smooth change over.
Had no problems ourselves and the lamps had done a few hours and getting a bit dark. Power pak is adjustable for each xenon so you can up the current for a cranky one on start then wind back a bit for running the reel.
3. No change shutter or dowser so IF the end of the outgoing reel has something other than BLACK leader on it as the outgoing lamp dies away you get to see the tail leader of the ending machine... you wonder what the heck is going on first time you see that.
Positives were good steady image which in our case was in scope on almost a 6m sized pix and really was as good as the old (1927)Simplex machines I used to use in the outdoor.
Easy to thread although a bit unconventional from the intermittent holdback sprocket to the sound drum but once done a few times no worries at all.
All parts easy to get at for lubing or cleaning.
Even the Xenon could be changed in about 10 mins flat and they are more or less prefocussed so I would not be worried about doing one on the run between reels if need be and then if reqd giving it a tweak or two later on.. has an interlock on the door so reasonably safe.
New projectors come with a nice little box of spares in a quite sturdy wooden box.
The ones I used had been used with a platter in a small cinema in Perth for a few weeks whilst the normal machine was repaired from a major failure and apart from going through a few lamps with the more or less continuos running it performed fautlessly.

New price here in OZ last time I heard was around $18K Aust $$ but I have seen good S/H ones advertised here for as low as $10k.

Parts do not seem to be a problem as the factory in China is still churning them out but they are so simple providing they are kept clean and lubed should last for ages.
The intermittent also appears to be of quite a high standard for its quite small size.IF I can work this "Upload Image thingo" I will try to post a pix of the machine use at Newman.
The Producer (Sue Maslin) and Director (Sue Brooks) of the film were present at the first screening and were quite impressed by the image and sound we managed to squeeze out of these... so they cannot be all that bad.
But very portable and very easy to use and did no damage to the print after about 10 sessions it went onto Broome Sun Pictures for some sneaks up there.
If I ever have to do another similar show will use those again as I was considering taking the Century CC and MUT to do the showings.. glad I did not as these were a breeze to use.
Best part was it all packed into the back of the station wagon, projectors, sound gear and film plus all our clothing etc [Smile]

Lindsay

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-04-2004, 07:11 AM:

I ran a pair of MP30s a couple of weeks ago. They're decent enough. Not my favorite machines to work with, but they don't damage film. I'd be nervous about running 6000' reels on them, however. They don't have standard metal changeover shutters; the ones that I used simply switch the exciter bulb and halogen bulb at every changeover, so it's impossible to put on a perfectly seamless show (the halogens take a second or so to fade and come up to full brightness). You could get a platter, but that would pretty much defeat the purpose of having portable projectors.

I would second the recommendation of getting a full-size machine, though. A Century or Simplex will take up only a little more space if you get a 5-point base and a small lamphouse. The machines can also be moved fairly easily by one person: the bases come apart into several pieces, the lamphouse comes off the base, the reel arms come off, the projector head and motor come off the soundhead, etc. You don't get the same nice easy-to-setup package, but the overall quality of the machine is better.

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 02-04-2004, 08:08 AM:

My Holmes (an ongoing project) has run film sveral times without any film damage. In fact the film path has no sound drum so nothing touches the picture area. These can be bought for around $500 when they pop up but may require a lot of work to get into decent shape.

http://www.angelfire.com/film/shutterblade/holmes/holmes.html

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 02-04-2004, 08:13 AM:

I'm amazed that nobody has mentioned the Holmes portable 35's.

My 3 machines are over 60 years old, and running well... for now.

They do have drawbacks, like:

Low light output.
Nearly non-existant replacement parts.
Non-standard magazines.
Tight threading path.
Totally original sound pick-up ideas.

Why did Bell & Howell not build a 35mm? Judging by the 16's they built, it would have been a winner.

EDIT: Ed got here first! Thanks, Ed! Holmes owners gotta stick together!

[ 02-04-2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Bruce McGee ]

Posted by Gilbert Travin (Member # 2138) on 02-04-2004, 08:52 AM:

Hi

I know that France is very far from America !

In Lyon, we have a manufacturer of 35 mm portable projectors : Buisse and Bottazzi ; their machines are very robust and removable xenon lamphouse equipped. These machines are used for mobile cinema (a little city which have'nt cinema but have a conference hall can rent the projector ...)
If you are interested I can find their address ...

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 02-04-2004, 09:00 AM:

Gilbert,
I thought B & B has gone out of business. They produced both 16 and 35mm projectors which where very well made.

Posted by Webster Colcord (Member # 1955) on 02-04-2004, 06:53 PM:

Here's a Tokiwa for sale on ebay for a starting bid of $300. Sounds like from what Mark was saying that this wouldn't be worth it, and I think that this seller has had the item listed before. Either that or he has a warehouse full of them- which might be the case judging from the picture.

T-60

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2004, 09:43 PM:

I agree, Phil. Many a people love those old DeVrys and some who have them are very proud of them. But to me, they ain't worth a plug nickel. [fu]

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-05-2004, 08:58 AM:

Hi Scott,

I ran a MP30 in my home screeing room for 10 years before I upgraded to a Kinoton FP23X. I ran 6000' reels with no problems, and it never scratched film. I modified one of my two MP30's for analog stereo, and removed the incandescent lamp and reflector so I could use a Kneisley 500 watt xenon with it.

/Mitchell

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 02-05-2004, 01:28 PM:

What about the PX and LX series of Veronese machines ? They use 70.6mm lenses, like any larger machine, and give "projector in a suitcase " performance like a larger machine...

Look at www.fproj.com

Posted by Mitchell Cope (Member # 32) on 02-06-2004, 11:49 AM:

I have a Shinkyo portable. AVE resold it as the AVE 35mm Transportable. I think these were made in the 1960s. Rangertone, from whom I've bought parts, said this machine was really popular at one time with CBS. Mine can be seen on the Pictures page under my name. I've not had any problems with it damaging film. As opposed to the Holmes, it has alot of finger space. I found mine on eBay for $1000.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-07-2004, 04:52 PM:

Look no further than Proyecson's Portable 2000 currently rolling off the production line in Valencia, Spain!

This is a very good machine for its price...a proper xenon lamphouse with glass reflector...fully demountable and can take up to 2K lamps...optional long play base, or buy a pair for C/Os (where you can run up to 6000ft reels)...complies with the usual SMPTE standards. They do a nifty rectifier too!

I used one before Christmas here and was very pleased with it. It's very well engineered and robust. The version I had could only take 62.5mm lenses, but they're now making the standard 70.6mm barrel available.

Check out www.proyecson.com ...usual disclaimers!

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-07-2004, 06:58 PM:

Is the name of that company, essentially, "Projection" ?

Interesting...follow the news link to the "Carmen" premiere and the artwork indicates the film has a Dolby Surround track using Pro Logic II.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 02-08-2004, 01:10 PM:

Not sure about the name Steve; sounds logical, but could the "son" refer to "sound"? I'll have to brush up on my Spanish!

Re. "Pro Logic II" for "Carmen", I would be 99% sure that's the wrong logo on the quad. I worked for a distributor once where a graphic designer (contracted by somebody else) simply refused to use the logos that came from Dolby as part of the Licence Agreement, and just scanned in a domestic version lifted off a VHS cover or what have you! Happens much more often than you'd think.

Maybe "Pro Logic II" sounds sexier than "Dolby Digital in Selected Theatres"!

Posted by Steven H. Krams (Member # 1461) on 02-08-2004, 01:37 PM:

If you can find one the Ernemann #12P is quite a nice machine. It will project 16 & 35mm Images. It is robust, compact but very heavy.

ICE imports the Westar 105X 35mm Portable systems. These have evolved from Russian and & East German predescessors over the years. We have been dealing with this machine since 1978. At first they were crude and perfomance was poor. Over the years they have improved. We do some of our own Modfications including Timing Belt Drive, Timing Pulleys,belts and Ball Bearings. It is compact and performs reasonably well. It comes with Stereo Analog Reader, Dual sound and Picture changeover, 1000W Xenon Lamphouse, Power supply, and the usual assortment of options. It is likely the least expensive portable produced anywhere these days.

Good Luck!

Steven Krams
International Cinema Equipment
a division of Magna-Tech

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-08-2004, 04:42 PM:

I have several of the erneman 12 heads in rentals and they work very well

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-09-2004, 01:08 AM:

Scott's recommedation of a 5-point base to transport with full-size machines is a good one. I've thought about taking a show on the road, & have stuck at the pedestal. What other solutions for pedestals "portable" use with full-size projectors have folks used?

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 02-09-2004, 02:11 AM:

Here is another nice italian portable projector
http://www.cinemec.it/PX500.htm

Fumeo also makes (made?) neat 35mm portable projectors, but this seems to be almost unknown.

Philippe Laude

Posted by Neil Chue Hong (Member # 685) on 02-17-2004, 11:28 AM:

The Veronese range of portable machines are very nice, the only two problems on the one I've used is that the front stabilising foot is very easy to knock off when setting up, and they are difficult to start in humid conditions (belts slip).

The latter is only really relevent if you're taking it out and about a lot - I've only seen this problem happen when doing outdoor screenings. Everything can be fitted into three manageable flightcases.

I've also used Chinese made Spektras (sp?) which did the job and were sturdy enough.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-18-2004, 09:12 PM:

"Scott's recommedation of a 5-point base to transport with full-size machines is a good one. I've thought about taking a show on the road, & have stuck at the pedestal. What other solutions for pedestals "portable" use with full-size projectors have folks used?"
_________________________________________________________________

Have done this literally hundreds of times using 5 point bases. They come apart into bite sized sections that are extremely easy to carry up dozens of flights of stairs.
For the last ten or so years I've used a pair of Simplex LL3 bases that are intenally wired for C/O, etc. and a pair of Centurys and Super Lume-x's, CP55, etc. I can set these up and have them running on location in an hour or so.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-18-2004, 09:39 PM:

My rental erneman12's live on a pair of the older sheet metal Vic5 bases (they have a MTM dubber built onto the back door) and they have proven to be very easy to move
The other ones I have seen a lot of is the slim jim bases on the road

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 02-21-2004, 10:50 PM:

I can also recommend the JGS Chinese portable projector. Our cinema chain has been using 3 JGS for 5 years in a cinema in Eastern States , they are still going well as of today.
We have 1 here as a spare , very simple easy to setup and operate machine.

Posted by Paul Trimboli (Member # 1509) on 02-21-2004, 11:52 PM:

I have been wanting to do something similar and am getting a 5 point simplex pedestal to go with my rebuilt RCA 1050 and will be rebuilding a Simplex Standard to go with that. What bits need to be removed before moving these things? I am guessing I drain the oil from the RCA gear box and take the sound dampening drum off so as to avoid bending the shaft, anything else?

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-22-2004, 09:14 AM:

quote:
I agree, Phil. Many a people love those old DeVrys and some who have them are very proud of them. But to me, they ain't worth a plug nickel.

Depends on what DeVrys you're talking about. XD portables... yep, crap. Even when new. That sounds like the ones you ran, Paul. Big, square black-box "suitcase"? Flimsy little tin gate and a single dampened sprocket at the bottom, pulling the film through a stationary (film gate) soundhead? Very hard on film.

I can't imagine any of these would be in screening rooms Phil, you must be talking about the 12000 series. If so, I agree, those were very good and reliable machines.

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 02-24-2004, 02:49 AM:

Just have a look at this gentlemen, a very neat conversion based on a Philips head and its reader (genuine reverse scan with stereo solar cell). It handles 1800m reels (6000 feet?).

Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 03-02-2004, 05:30 PM:

Re: Proyecson's Portable 2000

With this projector and a 2000w bulb how large of an image could one get on a screen?

I wan't the largest possible image area w/ the littlist amount of distortion.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-02-2004, 05:55 PM:

So far Phillipes Phillips setup is the best "portable" shown here. Those are really great projectors.

Hey Phillipe, Any idea where I can could import of one of those heads from?

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-02-2004, 07:30 PM:

The Proyecson 2000 can easily handle a 30 foot screen. The lamphouse is detachable via alinement pins and two thumbbolts to breakdown into an easy to transport portable. The system including switching power supply runs on single phase 220VAC.

Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 03-02-2004, 08:07 PM:

Richard,

Do you distribute these in the US?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-02-2004, 08:19 PM:

So what's this portable Simplex model? Junk or decent?

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 03-03-2004, 02:13 AM:

Mark,
a friend of mines still has a complete Philips FP4, or FP5, I don't remember. Maybe I could ask him if he wants to part from it.
Let me know.