Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: TA-10 rings alarm at end of show

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Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 02-12-2004, 10:16 PM:

I am having an unusual problem with a TA-10 (X-90 console, Simplex 1060 projector head, 5-star sound-head).

The thing is running perfectly, except for the end of the show. The closing cue goes through, and the automation does its thing (closes the change-over, switches to non-sync, brings up the lights, ect.) and then, just as the film runs out, sounds an alarm.

I have watched the sensor cue indicator on the FM-35 detector at the end of the show. (Centre film Q is shut down). I saw the normal shut-down cue go by, and just when the film leaves the FM-35, another centre cue is "seen" by this sensor).

It would seem that this unit is seeing film run-out as another cue. I know that a second shut-down cue would try to start the unit up again.

Examining the end of the film, I could see no other cues. Just to be safe, I chopped about five feet of the end of the film, just in case there was a partial cue I had missed.

A phone call to the theatre this evening revealed that this is still happening.

Any ideas?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-12-2004, 10:41 PM:

I imagine the problem may be with the detector block or possibly a loose part in the FM-35 assembly itself.

If the detector block is bad, swap it with another known-good one. If the problem moves, you know you need to replace the part.

Sometimes the screws that hold the rollers/shafts onto the FM-35 frame get loose. If the roller jiggles when the film leaves the sensor the metal in the shafts could trip the detector.

If it's not one of those two problems then it could be a malfunction in the automation. It's rare but it happens. My bet is on a faulty detector block.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 02-13-2004, 01:25 AM:

Is this unit soaked with oil? If so it's time to give it a bath. Also, check the circuit boards for bad solder joints.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 02-13-2004, 02:49 AM:

When the TA10 see's an end show cue the film alarms are turned OFF to prevent the alarm sounding when the film runs out.

If another end show cue is read AFTER the dowser has closed then that would indeed put the show back on screen.

However, if another end show cue is read BEFORE the dowser closes then the alarms are turned back on and you will get the symptoms you are describing.

Are you sure that there is not another end show cue being seen by the FM35 BEFORE the dowser closes....

I doubt very much the problem is being caused by the FM35 itself being dirty as you would have been getting random shutdowns or projector not starting when you pressed the start button.

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 02-13-2004, 10:35 PM:

Thank you all for your ideas. I am beginning to wonder about what Ken mentioned about another cue being seen before change-over close. It is possible, I suppose, that they used a cheap quality of foil tape that is somehow manifesting itself as two cues instead of one.

That, or a "chad" (a piece of foil that stuck to the splicer and found its way onto this film) could also cause this.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-14-2004, 12:34 AM:

We know what happens when "chads" get involved. [Smile]

Question though, I am not very familure with the TA-10's but with a show end cue wouldn't that shut the dowser. So if there was two show end cues the dowser would already be closed. I know on a Christie 3Q automation the show end cue shuts the dowser and switches sound to nonsync and cuts the alarm off.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-14-2004, 01:06 AM:

In the TA-10 the tail cue isn't exactly an "End of Show" cue. It's called an "Intermission Cue".

When the cue is detected, the dowser shuts, the sound goes off and the lights come up (or whatever you have it programmed for) then the alarm is disabled. The film still runs.

If the projector "Tails-Out" the automation resets for the next show. But, if another intermission cue is detected before tail-out it has the same logical effect as pressing the start button. The 7-second timer is activated, the dowser opens and you're back on screen. IF the film tailed out after the first cue the alarm would be activated again. The machine would think there is a fault because it assumes you wanted to restart the automation sequece again.

The intermission cue can be used to make a "curtain call" a pause in the program for a lens change or whatever you need it for.

Think of the TA-10 as an Erector set. It gives you all the parts to make your show. You put it together in whatever way you want to suit your needs.

If there was another cue BEFORE your intended cue the dowser would be shut already. It would seem like the automation was beating the cue.

By Rick's description, that's not happening.

A chad on the film is a likely explanation. However, since he said he had cut off a bunch of film from the end I assumed that he eliminated that problem.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 02-14-2004, 03:03 AM:

Randy you are not quite right about the end show/Intermission Cue. To turn the alarms back on the cue must be seen BEFORE the shutter closes and it does NOTHING else at that time. If its seen after the shutter has closed then the show will attempt to go back on screen, starting with its seven second countdown. When the cue is seen there is an adjustable time delay before the shutter closes.

At the end of a show the alarms are turned off to allow film run out at the end of the show. If another "Intermission Cue" is seen then the TA10 will immediatly turn on the presence alarm, wait three seconds and turn on the motion alarm and at the end of seven seconds open the shutter etc.

To determin exactly what is happening here, add a long length of film, say 20 feet, onto the end of the feature in question.... then at the end of the show see what happens.

If the TA10 attempts to go back on screen then it suggests a cue after the shutter has closed. If it allows the film to run out and then sounds the alarm that suggests a cue before the shutter has closed.

One other thought, has anyone recently done any work inside the TA10. It is possible that somehow the two yellow wires that control the "intermission cue" have been linked to event 5, the film run out event! Could be a short or even one of the event linking diodes gone faulty? This would have the effect of attempting to start the show the instant it turns off the projector.