Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film cans with pad locks on them

This is topic Film cans with pad locks on them in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Kyle Watkins (Member # 986) on 02-18-2004, 06:11 PM:

we got our print of hildago, but the cans came with pad locks on them. I called TES they said that how buna vista is doing this now with sneaks. We wont get the lock code until a 4 hours before the showing. What a buch of crap this is.
any one els seen this or we part of the first ones.

kyle

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-18-2004, 06:19 PM:

It's not new. I think it started sometime last year; George Roher reported an instance of this in July of 2003.

On the bright side, at least you don't have to wait for someone from the studio to show up with keys (Aaron Sisemore's story).

--jhawk

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-18-2004, 07:16 PM:

Just call BVD and tell them that you have a damaged reel and refuse to play it for a paying audience. After while I am sure they will wise up.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-18-2004, 07:29 PM:

The padlock thing is not new with Buena Vista and TES. I get those screenings a lot with Disney studio prints. Their is three different combinations that they are using with those master locks.

I had a screening last fall, I got the print in at 9am for a 10am screening. And no call from TES till about 11am. I had the cans open at about 9:05am. Then they called at 12noon to see if we had gotten our print. You got to love TES.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-18-2004, 07:32 PM:

An Oxy-Acetylene Torch (also known as a fire wrench and lock cutter) should fix that. [Big Grin]

It is an amazing tool. It will fit any bolt, nut, hasp, lock, or film can ever made. [Smile]

Brad should like that. He needs some videos for his archives anyway. [Eek!]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-18-2004, 07:39 PM:

"But the cans came in like that!" [evil]

Posted by Kyle Watkins (Member # 986) on 02-19-2004, 12:36 AM:

If i knew the print wount not go to another theater right away form mine I like to some how glue the lock shut, to piss them off [evil]

Kyle

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 02:02 AM:

So, what? A padlock on the can is going to stop a thief from stealing the prints, cans, padlocks and all? Once they get the cans back to their basements they can work on the locks at their leisure. A bolt cutter, an angle grinder or a torch would make short work of that.

If this is an anti-piracy measure it makes no sense!

1) People at theaters aren't the ones pirating copies. Shit! Half of them aren't smart enough to pop popcorn without burning it!

2) People who pirate movies wouldn't be using crappy release prints anyway. They'd have to have a telecine to get it onto video. Besides, all they have to do is call up one of their buddies from "The Academy" and have them send over a screener tape?

They make more work for US in having to deal with this crap.
They make more work for THEMSELVES in having to get somebody to call every theater to give them the combination.

I don't know what kind of drugs they are taking but I wish they'd give me some! [Wink]

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 02-19-2004, 04:02 AM:

Edit:

My apologies for editing my posts. I was informed by my employers that I am not allowed to discuss anything pertaining to operation, proceedures, profits, or wages of the company I work for on this or any other public media. Please note I was NOT aware of such a policy, so I apologize for the disruption of the thread.

Thanks for your understanding on this. -Wolff

[ 03-02-2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Wolff King Morrow ]

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-19-2004, 07:58 AM:

Most of this padlock dealings are meant for keeping the film safe in transit. Those cans go through many hands before they get to a theatre for screenings. Like sitting on a loading dock, the people at the airport, the couriers that deliver the prints. I'm not saying the padlock idea is a great idea. But it's TES/Disney's way to see if there is a problem in getting it from point A to point B. Because if you've seen some of the couriers that move these cans around looking to make a quick buck.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-19-2004, 08:05 AM:

Four hours for inspection and platter makeup isn't unreasonable, assuming that the print is either brand new or in good enough shape that it doesn't require major work to make it playable. That doesn't change the fact that this sort of practice is annoying.

If this is a four-wall event, you can always add a condition to the rental agreement that a playable print must arrive at least 24 hours prior to the screening.

I agree that the locks are useless; if you really wanted to get the print, you could use boltcutters to cut the can latch or hinges and return the film in a different can. I'm sure that no one would notice. Even more useless are those stupid "tamper-proof" security tags that ETS uses on some prints. The cans can still be opened with the tags in place. And, since not all prints are shipped with the tags, the theatre has no way to tell if the can has been opened because there is no assurance that prints shipped from the depot will have the tags.

If you are really concerned about security, you can always ship the print back with _different_ locks on the cans and tell the distributor to call _you_ for the combination. [evil]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-19-2004, 08:19 AM:

If you buy the same model lock in the hardware store you'll get a little tool that enables the combination to be reset. So you could in fact send the print back with the the locks it came with but a different combination. Kinda silly though.

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 02-19-2004, 09:07 AM:

All the locks we've been getting are just cheap little wire & plastic jobs. I asked another guy I worked with, and we agreed, just cut them off. We never got any combinations or anything. God forbid somebody would get their hands on Catch that Kid before I did...

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 02-19-2004, 05:14 PM:

Edit:

My apologies for editing my posts. I was informed by my employers that I am not allowed to discuss anything pertaining to operation, proceedures, profits, or wages of the company I work for on this or any other public media. Please note I was NOT aware of such a policy, so I apologize for the disruption of the thread.

Thanks for your understanding on this. -Wolff

[ 03-02-2004, 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Wolff King Morrow ]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-19-2004, 05:27 PM:

I believe the real point of the locks is not to absolutely prevent entry (although it does discourage it) but to make it blatantly obvious if entry has been forced.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 06:37 PM:

So, they couldn't use Serialized Security Seals?

Snap one of these on each can when it's sent out. Put an unused one inside each can to be locked onto the hasp when it's returned. Both the broken ones and the "new" ones would have to be sent back with the print. Serial numbers would be recorded and questions would have to be answered if a can was found with the wrong tag on it.

Not to say that this is the perfect solution but it literally took me one minute to do a Google search to find this product and about another 30 seconds to think up the procedure. With all their security consultants drawing million dollar salaries they couldn't come up with something better than my idea? Or do they spend all their time and money smoking dope and circle jerking each other?

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-19-2004, 08:12 PM:

Its been done and is still being used by some companies and post-houses. But Disney went for the Big locks.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-19-2004, 09:39 PM:

It's especially funny when you get the fancy seals and realize that the hasp can go right over them without having to cut them. And "reseal" it the same way. Of course the IQ of the person likely to steal the print doesn't realize this so it's still a deterrent. [Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 10:08 PM:

The seals I'm thinking of are too big to go through the hole.
Plus, if you want, you can buy them made so that they can be broken by hand or you can get them so that they must be cut off.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-19-2004, 10:11 PM:

Security seals that are easily cut off are not a major deterrent. Padlocks are a significantly higher bar.

--jhawk

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-19-2004, 10:24 PM:

First, locks will only keep out the honest crooks.
Second, your average lock doesn't indicate whether or not it's been opened and then locked again.

A seal that must be destroyed to open it is the way to go IMHO.

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 02-19-2004, 10:50 PM:

If and when we get a print with a padlock, it *will* be cut off. We had 6 prints come in today. My guys build on my time, not the distributors. When they begin to pay for the buildup/breakdown payroll, I'll give the locks consideration.

Until then... [fu]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-20-2004, 10:22 AM:

You may find that the higher ups in your company in effect have agreed to the locks in the terms of the rental agremeent

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-20-2004, 10:15 PM:

Randy said:

quote:
A seal that must be destroyed to open it is the way to go IMHO.

I certainly agree.

Posted by Joe Schmidt (Member # 822) on 02-21-2004, 06:45 PM:

[Big Grin]

"Insanity. Insanity. This Lunatic Scheme will Destroy Us All!!" [Big Grin]

From "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea," 1961

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-29-2004, 11:53 PM:

We got a print of "America's Heart and Soul" (a Disney title) tonight. With heavy-duty combination padlocks. TES gave us the correct combination for one of the two cans. I had to open the other one by prying the latch off, thus destroying the can (which took all of about two minutes). This was for a director's screening, so refusing to play the print until we got a valid combination wasn't exactly an option.

I wouldn't be so upset about this if I thought that the padlocks would actually be effective at stopping film piracy.

[Mad]