Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: I've Never Used FILMGUARD

This is topic I've Never Used FILMGUARD in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 02-26-2004, 08:05 AM:

I'm going to try and talk a theater to install a cleaner system for FILMGUARD. Since I've never done this, are there any instruction or pictures on how this is set up. This is a single screen theater and up to now has never gotten a brand new print. However, they are running "Passion" and I spent the first 2 shows preventing brain wraps on reels 6 and 7 with my hands. Those last 2 reels were clinging and wrapping like crazy. The 3rd show no problem. I'm hopeful that a cleaning/lube system would prevent this.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 02-26-2004, 08:21 AM:

By all means do start using it--especially if you don't typically get pristine prints. It will make even well used prints glisten. Push the "Products" tab on the left side of the screen for a rundown on FG.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-26-2004, 03:34 PM:

The Kelmar dry web media cleaner manual describes how to mount the cleaner. This manual comes with the cleaner, but it's something to read up on.

Instructions for FilmGuard use are under "What do I need to use FilmGuard?" about half way down this page. Ironically the instructions that come with each FilmGuard bottle aren't available for download here. I guess nobody sent in a copy.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-26-2004, 08:04 PM:

It's posted somewhere, but it may not be in the manuals section.

FilmGuard instructions

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-26-2004, 08:15 PM:

If I remember correctly there's a link in some thread to the PDF file somewhere, but that's it.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 02-27-2004, 01:19 AM:

I have a problem with filmguard not drying out fast enough. It takes 2-3 days for the flimguard to finally "dry" I suppose and I can turn down the gate tension. Is there something I am doing wrong? I only run the print through once, I don't think I am putting a huge amount of filmguard on. I followed the directions but I can't figure out why it takes so long.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-27-2004, 02:10 AM:

It's not supposed to dry, but perhaps I'm not understanding the question. Are you saying that you have to keep the gate tension raised for 3 days instead of that one show during application? What kind of projector are you running?

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-27-2004, 02:02 PM:

I too am ready to dive into the film guard camp.

couple of questions:

I'm only going to buy one cleaner, and move between 3 screens.

I have a Potts (18 yrs old if that helps) 5 tier platter on two screens. Anyone successfully mounted a cleaner to this tree? It leaves very little room. Suggestions appreciated so I don't have to re-invent the wheel.

Kelmar or Christie cleaner? Which is the better?
Kelmar site list's a model 35-A with Autowind bracket?
Is this a universal bracket or is it intended for an Autowind platter?

Will the cleaner create enough drag to cause problems with a top platter tree mounted tension sensor? IE: cause it to shut down erroneously.

Thanks!

Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 02-27-2004, 02:13 PM:

With the Strongs and Simplexes in Guymon, I never had this problem...

On the Model C the streaks that appear when you first apply FG would never dissappear. They weren't as obvious, but If I looked real close, I could always see a hint of those streaks on the screen.

Could that have been a result of too little lighting(I can only assume that the heat from the lamp would affect the way the FG spreads over time) or is it something inherent with that model projector?

Even with that, the advantages of using FG are so awesome in how it takes care of the print over a long run, I never really worried about very hard to see streaks. I just wondered because I had never had that problem in the past.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-27-2004, 05:11 PM:

Christie stopped making cleaners back in the 70s I think. The only manufacturer currently making new units is Kelmar.

Yes, you want the one with the Autowind bracket. That is the only platter bracket made, and you can easily drill and tap two mounting holes in the side of your Potts platter tree. Look here for pics

Different types of projectors, film stocks, lab work, cleaning media and takeup winding tension will affect how fast the streaks smooth out. Most all combinations will eliminate the streaking from being projected after 1 or 2 passes.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-27-2004, 11:21 PM:

Good note for anyone new to film gurad. Take Brad's advice and cut the media pads in half for any movie 6 reels or less. You will save a lot that way.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 02-28-2004, 12:35 AM:

Yes Brad, I have to keep the gate tension raised for at least a couple of days. I have all Christie P35GPS projectors. Granted my gate bands probably have never been changed since we opened (about 6 years ago) but I run almost all the projectors at the 2 setting and have to raise it to 3 for a few days when running a print with filmguard. I don't know what it could be.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-28-2004, 05:23 AM:

Aldo, check the instructions that come with the bottle regarding those projectors. Due to the gate design, you need to make a slight modification to either the tension spring (adding a second one) or the easier (and cheaper) way is to sandwich a thin piece of cardboard at the top of each gate band to tense it up just a tad. Find the minimum setting you need to run with freshly soaked pads, then just leave it.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-29-2004, 01:48 AM:

quote:
Good note for anyone new to film gurad. Take Brad's advice and cut the media pads in half for any movie 6 reels or less. You will save a lot that way.

What about just keeping it going? I usually run a 5 to 6 reel print through the pads, then move the cleaner to another short movie and continue on. The supply cores end up with maybe a reel's worth of media or so, and I never had them run out. Then I just rewind the whole roll.

I've always wondered this: What about using the other side of the pad? On the Kelmar cleaner, if you swap the two supply cores, the film will be running across the other side of the media. Could this be done to get even more use out of the pads, or would that be pushing it?

=TMP=

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 03-01-2004, 02:49 AM:

Thomas, I have done both of those methods you mentioned, but I just assume that Brad knows what he is talking about and did what he said.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-01-2004, 03:24 AM:

I just started using my first shipment of the latest type of media pads, and on my lower set of rollers, the #%$ media won't track properly after about half-way through the movie. They run fine for about an hour, then start to go sideways. If I don't keep pushing the media back into line, it winds out past the end of the takeup shaft and eventually falls off of the film-contacting roller. If it wasn't happening halfway thru the roll, I'd think the takeup roller was out of line, but WTF??

I'll try to get a picture of this phenom tomorrow and post it. Anyone else had this happen?

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-01-2004, 03:29 AM:

back when we were using the stuff, this would sometimes happen. it seemed to correlate with how well the new media was initially wound onto the core. as i got more adept at doing this, it happened less often. my impression is that another generic brand of media (possibly cpi?) performed a little bit better in this regard.

curious how it would wind fine for a while before going apeshit. can't explain that part.

carl

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2004, 03:58 AM:

Mike, do the cores you have say "Film-Tech" on them?

Also, are you sure you are taping the lead end down straight?

Finally, have you checked to make sure the cleaner is indeed lined up straight with the projector?

CPI does not make media. We have also seen terrible winding and scratching issues from Big Sky media samples recently.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-01-2004, 09:08 AM:

Is FG not to be used on mag prints?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-01-2004, 10:53 AM:

quote:
We have also seen terrible winding and scratching issues from Big Sky media samples recently

Does Big Sky know about this? They've been pretty responsive lately to any issues I've brought up with them.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-01-2004, 01:16 PM:

Brad- I haven't looked closely at the cores but they should say Film-Tech, since they came out of a Film-Tech sealed box! (I bought'em from Claco.)

The cleaner is platter-mounted.

I might have gotten the end of this roll on a bit crooked. I'll try another roll and report back.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2004, 03:38 PM:

FG is fine on mag prints. You will see better reproduction when using it.

Big Sky is not our product. We had some reports that came in last fall of seeing scratches and they were all traced back to BS media. The scratching stopped when they used some FT media samples we traded them for some BS media samples. Indeed our own tests found scratching on those pads was an issue. But again, not our product.

About 6 months ago we switched over to a new core which has "Film-Tech" printed into the core itself. The new core has a slightly different design to aleviate winding issues. Depending on dealer stock and the luck of the draw, it is possible some people are still receiving the older cores. Most dealers should be completely switched over or very close to being phased out of the older cores.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 03-12-2004, 01:04 PM:

So... what about flipping the media and using the other side of the pads? Not reccomended?

=TMP=

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-12-2004, 01:29 PM:

I would assume the key issue is whether the media pads get loaded with enough abrasive dirt that they risk scratching the film. A really large hard particle could "poke through" to the other side. Scratching from a buildup of abrasive dirt particles was always a risk when the media cleaners were run dry.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-12-2004, 02:16 PM:

Flipping the pads over doesn't do much simply because the "clean" side is winding up against the "dirty" side anyway.

If you are running the media dry, never, ever reuse the media, flip it over, rewind it, etc. You can only get more passes out of it if you are running the media with FG.

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 03-13-2004, 07:33 AM:

I have nothing but praise for Filmguard and it does exactly what it claims. I run 9 vic 5's and no longer get any buildup in the gate or runners and no dust. The prints look as good as the first run. We've just finished running ROTK from December 16 until last Thursday and the rpint was ecellent.

The only thing I will not do is re use the media pads. However I can get nearly eight hours out of each new set of pads....

After each feature I cut off the used length and throw it away. The take-up roller is run at a constant speed so as the media is taken up the diameter increases and the speed the media is pulled through increases. Cutting it off after each faeture ensures the slowest, safest speed and longest run time.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 03-19-2004, 01:27 PM:

Ken -- Good point! The thought had crossed my mind, but it's true that you may be using more media than necessary as the takeup roll gets fuller/pulls faster.

Brad -- I would only consider flipping the pads to use at the makeup table on a heavily soiled used print, just to get the "bulk" off of it. And only if we're completely out of clean/new pads, as we are now, and as have been "ordered" for the past three months. (according to he who places orders) [Embarrassed]

=TMP=