Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Adjusting Neumade cutting blades

This is topic Adjusting Neumade cutting blades in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005899

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-26-2004, 03:05 PM:

Are the cutting blades on a Neumade splicer meant to be adjustable? On the one Neumade splicer my theater has, the blade facing towards the operator cuts the tape so that it is about 1 mm wider than the film. (The other blade cuts the tape perfectly flush with the film.) Is there anything I can do to adjust this?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-26-2004, 03:06 PM:

Splicing tips

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-26-2004, 03:27 PM:

I don't mean the side cutter, I mean the blades that cut the tape. The tape is not being cut flush with the film.

Posted by Mike Pennell (Member # 1692) on 02-26-2004, 03:28 PM:

If you remove the handle you can access the razor blade holders. There are two philips head screws that hold each of them. I dont know of any tried and true method of aligning them perfectly, besides trial and error (its a bitch!!) [Mad]

Be careful when loosening the screws as they tend to strip the head. [beer]

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-26-2004, 03:56 PM:

I have the same experiences as Mike; just keep cutting junk film until you get them adjusted, then try not to change it! The screws used are on the cheap side; I changed some to allen cap type (metric.)

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-26-2004, 04:29 PM:

Probably shouldn't be necessary to say this but...

Make sure you are authorized to carry out repairs on equipment.

Even so, do not perform any repairs/alignments/adjustments unless you know what you're doing. You could make the situation worse!

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-26-2004, 04:47 PM:

The worst thing that I have encountered while adjusting these blades is breaking a blade when it moves in too far. Have any extra blade handy.

What I do is us a small pair of pliers to loosen the screws, so I dont have to remove the handle, and then, like stated above, trial and error.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-26-2004, 06:01 PM:

Make sure dull blades aren't causing the problem.

Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 02-26-2004, 07:26 PM:

Ken--if your theatre has a supply of opaque splicing tape, why not use some to make your test splices while tweaking the splicer, instead of using clear or Zebra tape. Opaque tape will make checking the alignment easier. Besides, it's about the only time that normally awful stuff would actually be useful! [Big Grin]

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-26-2004, 07:53 PM:

Jon, I have tons of yellow tape and that is the only thing it gets used for. [Smile]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-26-2004, 07:59 PM:

Yellow tape is also good for running in between tensabarriers as temporary "caution" roping. [Big Grin]

I find putting a lockwasher on the screw helps a lot. Get it pretty secure, but not completely tight, then make your test splices (single sided only and with a new trailer you can toss). Try and error too far away from the edge of the film so you don't damage the blade, then gently "tap" one side or the other inward with a screwdriver against the "L" bracket that holds the blade on and repeat the splice test until you get it right. Then tighten it down.

Be careful when you loosen the screw that allows the handle to be pulled back! (This is the screw about an inch long just to the left of the tape holder.) If it is unscrewed and you try to punch a splice, you will bend the screw and then it MUST be replaced. All too often people decide to just go ahead and force-screw it back in place, as they strip the head out and then things are really messed up.

Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 02-27-2004, 08:16 AM:

Caution Tape....I never thought I would ever find a use for my last three rolls of Zebra tape...Thanks Brad!! [thumbsup]

I ordered a new handle from my Newmade splicer 35SS model. They sent along some new and improved screws for that blade bracket. I'm not sure if you can order them seperatly or if they just come as an added perk in the new handle.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-27-2004, 11:41 AM:

My company does not carry opaque tape at all. [Smile]

This splicer looked like it hadn't been cleaned ever, so I decided to take it appart and thoroughly clean it. Yeah, aligning those blades sure is a pain in the ass! But now I have another problem: The perf cutters are actually cutting into the film, making the sprocket holes ever so slightly wider, and they are leaving hanging chads. They never did that before I took the thing appart. What could cause this?

quote:
Be careful when you loosen the screw that allows the handle to be pulled back! (This is the screw about an inch long just to the left of the tape holder.) If it is unscrewed and you try to punch a splice, you will bend the screw and then it MUST be replaced. All too often people decide to just go ahead and force-screw it back in place, as they strip the head out and then things are really messed up.

So that's how that thing got bent! (Acutally I noticed it was bent and I pretty much figured out that's how it happened.) That screw has been like that for who knows how long. I'd like to replace it, but does it need to be replaced?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-27-2004, 12:36 PM:

The punch and die are a matched set. Not only must they be kept together, they only go back together one way.

The best thing to do is to hand fit them back togehter while you have them out of the splicer theen set the bottom plate onto the splicer base and put the screws in loosely. Then put the top piece on, again, don't tighten the screws all the way. Once you have everything "meshed" the right way tighten the screws and continue with reassembly.

If you try refitting them and they still don't work right, they've probably been damaged. You should never have to force the two pieces together. It should only take finger pressure to fit them. Any more than that and you'll damage them. If they've been damaged they'll have to be replaced.

Honestly, the best thing to do is never to take them apart in the first place. Unless they are really bad, there's not much more you can clean by taking them apart than you can leaving them assembled. Furthermore, overcleaning them just makes them not work as well.

I have two splicers. One Neumade and one generic splicer. The generic one has rarely been used. It was cleaned two years ago and hasn't been touched since. The Neumade gets emptied out every so often. If it get dirty I'll take a toothbrush and clean it. Other than that it doesn't get touched.

It used to piss me off to no end when I'd go to a theater and find the splicers all disassembled in a pile! [Mad]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-27-2004, 04:55 PM:

quote:
They never did that before I took the thing appart. What could cause this?

Um, you taking it apart? [Smile]

Actually, do what Randy said.

Pipe cleaners (like kids use in kindergarten or whatever for art) work well to clean splicers too.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-27-2004, 05:28 PM:

Tips for getting the tape-cutting blade alignment right: don't adjust it with both screws all the way loose.

Instead, first loosen both screws. Then, tighten one to medium tightness. Tighten the other so it just prevents casual wiggling. Then, carefully tap near the second screw such that the blade pivots around the first screw. When you've got that set, tighten the second screw and loosen the first (partially) and repeat the process.

It is much easier to make this kind of adjustment with pivotting and tapping then it is to either do it blind or to get it right and hope it doesn't slip with the screws completely loose.

--jhawk

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-27-2004, 05:31 PM:

Dear Ken:

I feel that your heart is in the right place but I feel obligated to caution you -- don't get a reputation for being a tinkerer.

Please don't be offended: My heart is in the right place.

Sincerely,
Manny.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 02-28-2004, 06:01 AM:

btw, careful with those evil blade holder screws. If you over tighten them they snap clean off, leaving you the chore of getting out the nub stuck in the hole. [Mad]

Fortunately, you can go spend under a dollar at Home Depot and get a bag full of screws you can use that don't bust in half.

Danny

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-28-2004, 09:30 AM:

Getting those out is easy. Just remove the above-mentioned blade holder and use a pair of Vise Grips or needle nose pliers to back the screw out.

Then bury a screwdriver in the eye socket of the idiot who screwed the thing up in the first place! [Mad]

This is the thing that used to piss me of the most. Repairing splicers that other people took apart... Even after I have told them on no uncertain terms: "DO NOT take these splicers apart, DAMMITT!!"

Still, I'd be fixing splicers time after time after time. I would go around to each theater and collect up all the broken splicers and all their parts. Then, in my spare time, I'd fix them up at home and send them back to the theaters. At one time I had EIGHT splicers and over $1,000 worth of random parts sitting on my living room floor! I'd fix them as fast as those idiots could take them apart!

Finally I started putting Loc-Tite on all the screw threads and dabbing red nail polish on the heads. Like magic, splicers stopped falling apart by themselves!

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 02-29-2004, 02:52 PM:

I am not a tinkerer. I have taken appart splicers before and put them back together with out any problems. This only reason I took this one appart to clean it was because it was *so* dirty.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-29-2004, 03:31 PM:

I didn't say you were a tinkerer. (Perhaps you should read that post again.)

I don't doubt you when you say the splicer was dirty and not behaving well. I also believe you when you say that you have taken splicers apart before.

You began this thread by asking how to make an adjustment to the cutting blade. This tells me that you didn't know how to go about doing that. Nothing wrong with not knowing and nothing wrong with asking.

Even so, my experience in this game has proven to me that a lot of this stuff is all about technique and there are all kinds of tips 'n' tricks that you don't find written down anywhere and, when you do, they don't always make sense right away. In short, there's nothing like watching someone do these things and having them explain to you what they're doing and what to watch out for.

I offered a general two-part caution to:

1. Make sure you are authorized to do the work; and
2. Make sure that you could actually perform the task properly.

Like so many other booth techniques, learning to fix splicers requires guidance and experience. I sensed from your initial post that you lacked both. Hence, those first words of caution.

The fact that your splicer had developed a new (and more serious) problem right after you "fixed" it proved my initial hunch that you would probably run into greater trouble with this task.

Overstepping one's authority, skill level or skill set is characteristic of a tinkerer. Another characteristic is that they tend to cause more problems than they actually solve. Hence, my second words of caution. (Perhaps you should read that post again.)

[ 02-29-2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 02-29-2004, 11:46 PM:

I think that most people would take offense to being called a "tinkerer" because when you do that it is automatically implying that that person is a total retard.

I wouldnt give someone multiple warnings about being a tinkerer if I didn't think that. I dont know Ken but I would get to know him better before I made that assumption. IT sounds to me that Ken has a splicer that is making a low quality splice and he is trying to improve it. I thought that is what this website is about, trying to help others in the movie industry to help keep prints in perfect condition. Another theater might get Kens print with his unacceptable splice and instead of peeling the tape they will cut off two frames and re-splice, then the next theater gets that print and doesnt like the gap and chops off two more frames to make it overlap and so on.

I'm sure there are also a large number of unqualified people reading threads on FT and doing things that they are not authorized to do. So it really doesnt matter WHO asked the question, the information is still there for all to see.

I do not suggest that anyone do anything that they are not authorized to do either. However, I think calling them a tinkerer and not trying to help them is pretty insulting. If you dont want to give your knowledge away then dont, but please dont treat people like they are stupid.

I know that was not your intention Manny, but that is the way that it has come off to me in the past, by other members as well.

Posted by Stan Gunn (Member # 554) on 03-01-2004, 02:58 AM:

The best way out of the whole mess as I see it, is to replace all your splicers with CIR splicers.
Then all your problems would vanish,in over 25 years of useing these great units and only requireing a bit of a clean every six months or so,no little screws to break, [Embarrassed]

simple tape cutter with simple adjustment, simple film cutter, setup adjustment for shrunken film.
What more could you want? [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2004, 04:54 AM:

CIR [puke]

Geez, the real solution here is to hire real projectionists.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-01-2004, 12:47 PM:

Chris --

I suggest you also go back and re-read those posts. I have not called anyone a tinkerer. What I said was to AVOID getting the REPUTATION of being one.

I cannot be held responsible for anyone's specific interpretation of the word but suffice it to say that being labeled a "tinkerer" would indeed be a bad thing in this context.

Still, I haven't (yet) called anybody a tinkerer.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 03-01-2004, 05:02 PM:

I know what you meant Manny, I was simply suggesting that some people will take it that way. Personally I would just prefer that someone not say anything if they arent trying to help me with the situation at hand.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-01-2004, 06:05 PM:

Since when did words of caution become unhelpful?

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-01-2004, 06:27 PM:

Why are yous all getting your panties all tied up in a knot?

I'm a tinkler and I'm damn proud of it! I tinkle a few times a day whenever the need arises.

What? What's that you say? Tinkerer? Oh, Ummmm... nevermind.

>>> Phil

Posted by Matt Zeiner (Member # 1914) on 03-01-2004, 06:40 PM:

All the best techs I know are tinkerers.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-01-2004, 06:55 PM:

Interesting observation. I'm sorry to hear that.

As one might imagine, some of the worst techs I have known have been tinkerers.

The best techs I know have years of relevant training and solid experience behind them.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 03-01-2004, 07:03 PM:

It isnt that words of caution are bad, but when you say "dont be a tinkerer" and nothing else, that would say to me "I think you are stupid so why try?" Again, I know that is not what YOU are saying.

On occasion I will make a comment and say not to do anything unless authorized or something along those lines but only if I am also trying to help them with the problem or question they asked.

As far as assuming that Ken shouldnt do anything to his splicers because he made a problem worse...well, I am sure that there are some very seasoned techs out there that have royally screwed something up when they actually knew what they were doing, of course I doubt they would admit it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2004, 07:25 PM:

Alright boys, stop it. Both of you are right and both of you are wrong.

Manny, I have known a LOT of techs who have been doing the job for 30+ years who are like a virus to anything they touch.

Chris, I think Manny is just generalizing.

It all boils down to the person doing the work. However if the person does not have permission to fix something and there is any doubt whatsoever that he/she knows how to repair it properly, they are completely on their own if they screw it up.

Personally, I find the people who can figure things out on their own without indepth formal training and only general guidance tend to be the best in the long run.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-01-2004, 09:41 PM:

The only reason I know how to assemble splicers is because I've had to reassemble so damn many of them. The first ones that I did were in my "home theater" that had either been dropped or had the afformetioned blade holder screw busted off.

The first splicer I worked on wouldn't go back together. I thought, "Oh, Fuck!" It took me the better part of a day to get it together again. I don't mind fixing splicers but I HATE-HATE-HATE putting them back together again after somebody took it apart for no reason.

With that in mind, I guess you could say I tinkered. I think that there should be a line drawn between "good tinkerer" and a "bad tinkerer":

1) Don't tinker with a critical system. If it can put a show out of commission don't touch it! I had two other splicers in my booth. If I killed one I had two more to fall back on.

2) Know your limits. If you aren't sure what you're fooling with don't fool with it.

3) Baby steps: Don't go diving in to something unless you understand the basics. Don't try to replace an intermittent unless you know how to do easier things like changing sprocket.

4) Ask, Ask, Ask! Talk to people who KNOW. Find out how things work. Read the manuals. Study how things in real life. Call your tech him his opinion when faced with a question.

5) If you screw it up, come clean. I have always lived under a rule: If you screw up admit it and you won't get into trouble. (Within reason.) If you screw up and try to cover it up you'll be in trouble twice. Once for screwing up. Once for lying.

6) The simplest rule: If it ain't broke don't fix it!

I don't think Ken is in much danger of becoming a bad tinkerer.

Posted by Matt Zeiner (Member # 1914) on 03-02-2004, 05:17 AM:

That doesn't preclude the possibility that they may also be tinkerers, Manny. Solid troubleshooting skills come from reason and experimentation...by definition. I know many electrical engineers who can design all sorts of crazy stuff, but couldn't troubleshoot themselves out of a paper bag if it had a hole in it.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 03-02-2004, 04:12 PM:

Brad said:

quote:
Geez, the real solution here is to hire real projectionists.

Brad, are you implying here that I am not a real projectionist? I am sure that is not what you meant (at least I hope not), but that certainly is one way it *could* be taken. If I were to take it that way, or worse, if you did mean it that way, I would find that to be far more insulting than Manny's comments.

Actually, I don't find Manny's comments insulting. As he explained, he was not calling ME a tinkerer, he was cautioning me against becoming one. Thanks for the advice, Manny. [Smile]

I believe Randy hit the nail right on the head:

quote:
1) Don't tinker with a critical system. If it can put a show out of commission don't touch it! I had two other splicers in my booth. If I killed one I had two more to fall back on.

We have three other splicers. One of them is in perfect condition and I wouln't touch it. The other two are okay. This one was the worst before I cleaned it up.

quote:
2) Know your limits. If you aren't sure what you're fooling with don't fool with it.

I love to take things appart to learn how they work, but I have ALWAYS followed this rule. If I feel for a second that I am in over my head, I will stop and ask.

So, am I a good tinkler....er...tinkerer? [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-02-2004, 04:28 PM:

Ken, why don't you read the post right above the one where I made that comment. Notice the crack about how "wonderful" CIR splicers are? Get it now?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 03-03-2004, 12:52 PM:

Brad, my appologies. Yes, I did see your comment about the CIR, but when you said "The real solution here...," I thought you were refering to the whole problem of people "messing" with splicers in general.

Posted by Stan Gunn (Member # 554) on 03-03-2004, 04:57 PM:

Gee I was serious! Mind you the C I R [Smile]

splicer is the main one that is available, the asian copys are pretty crook mate, so ya doz the best yer can with wat yer got, criky me kangaroo just kicked the shiter out of me rooster,thatl upset me chooks. No cackleberrys tonight. [eyes]