Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: A "TEN COMMANDMENTS" question

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-10-2004, 06:50 PM:

I just posted a review of "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" in "Afterlife" after watching the new DVD last night and I have a question regarding the original theatrical presentation. It has been many years since I saw the movie in a theatre and I seem to recall the overture to the movie followed Cecil B. DeMille's stage introduction of the movie. On the DVD, the overture is played first and is followed by Mr. DeMille's stage introduction and then the film. For a better flow, I think Mr. DeMille's verbal introduction should have been first followed by the overture and then the main credits. The overture is so stunning and I feel the verbal introduction only disrupts the continuous flow of the music . Of course, this is only my personal opinion.. Also, do any of you know how many theatres played the film in horizontal VistaVision? projection?

-Claude

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 03-10-2004, 08:16 PM:

Claude

The original instructions had the overture then the intro by Mr. DeMille and then the main credits.

You can find more info over at WideScreen Museum.com

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/roadshow_demille.htm

Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 03-10-2004, 08:28 PM:

If my memory serves me correctly, the overture preceded the introduction by Cecil B. Like you Claude, it's a while since I've seen it but I seem to remember the transition from DeMille's intro to the opening sequence of the movie with a voice over throw into the first scene.

I saw it new as a child and then screened it as a re-run in 1967. The music by Elmer Bernstein is just wonderful. The notes on the recent CD says that Cecil predicted to him that the music would one day be enjoyed by a future generation. He was right.

I haven't seen the DVD but must get it.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 03-10-2004, 09:28 PM:

In a theatrical presentation, it wouldn't make sense for DeMille's comments to come first. When the overture was played, the curtain was closed (right?) and the house lights were still partially up. But when DeMille introduces the film, the house lights have to be down.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-10-2004, 10:11 PM:

Warren,

I also have the soundtrack music on CD and I still have the original long playing album on Dot Records I bought when the movie was first released in 1956. In addition to the LP and CD of music from "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS", I still have the souvenir booklet I bought when I saw the movie for the first time during it's road show at Consolidated's Kuhio Theatre in Honolulu. It is a beautiful publication and Kathrine Orrison mentions it in her commentary on the DVD when she talked about the artist who painted the original images from the movie that is in the booklet. As far as the music is concerned, notice how smooth the transition is when the overture ends and the main credit music begins. On the DVD and the way it was played in the theatres, there is a huge gap between the overture and the main credits because of Cecil B. DeMille's introduction.

Martin,

If I was a theatre owner and played the film with no restriction on where to place Mr. DeMille introduction, I would place the intro first. When the image of the light colored curtain flashes on to the curtain, I would slowly open the theatre curtain and dim the house lights at the same time. After Mr. DeMille ends his speech by saying "There will be an intermission, I would slowly close the curtain again and leave the house lights dim during the overture and open the curtain again slowly when the Paramount logo flashes on the screen, The house lights should be slowly darkened at the same time the curtain is opening.

-Claude.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 03-11-2004, 08:27 AM:

The original Laser Disc release had the DeMille intro preceed the walk in music. When our theatre played the "restored SUPER-VistaVision" (Scope) release in 89 or so I attempted to present it this way with very awkward results. Afterwards, I presented it Curtain closed, house dimmed, walk in music. Curtain opened to 1:37 for DeMille intro. Curtain closed as DeMille walked off & re-opened wide (and sound clicked up 3 notches) on opening logo. Very dramatic & elicited "ooohs" & "ahhhs" from the audience. I love schtick! [Big Grin]

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 03-11-2004, 08:29 AM:

FWIW, my 16mm print has the DeMille intro ahead of the music, and it hasn't been respliced.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 03-11-2004, 01:28 PM:

Afraid I don't remember which way was up...

I always loved a movie with entrance/intro and intermission music on film, black screen with curtain closed. I ran "Barry Lyndon" years ago this way, and a couple revivals of "Gone With The Wind" as well. It had a lot of class.

Posted by Warren Smyth (Member # 1838) on 03-11-2004, 03:33 PM:

I remember the twin LP set of the music on Dot. My friend had a copy, and as a teenager we spent many happy hours listening to it. We were Hi Fi (hi fidelity) enthusiasts at the time with home built amplifiers based on the Williamson design. Funny how you don't hear that term (hi fi) any more. One could visualize the scenes in the film by just hearing the music. The score I believe, compares favorably with some of the finest symphonies.

Film performances prior to the mid seventies here always started with the national anthem. At that time, ours was the same as Britain's because we started as a British colony. The curtain would raise on the queen trailer which would show Queen Elizabeth on horse back or coronation shots while the sound track carried the anthem. Everyone stood for the full duration. I still have a number of these trailers which I sometimes run at the start, to the nostalgic delight of older audiences, in my theatrette.

I remember at about ten years of age, realizing that the Ten Commandments was something pretty special because only the sound from the queen trailer played and then to the surprise of many patrons, the overture started.

Naturally, there wasn't any advertising films in those days except for a trailer for the next attraction which was included in the shorts on the first half (before interval). Naturally, there was no trailer nor shorts for the screening of the Ten Commandments. The theatre, a magnificent picture palace which has been recently restored, had at that time, had a new larger screen installed. It was probably the first time I saw the 1:1.8 aspect ratio. It's hard to believe now, the impact that this film had on our pre television population. It was a major event and the overture and 'presentation', while maybe not fully understood by the younger generation, helped raise the status of such a 'picture' going experience to that of attending the opera or ballet.

I can't help feeling that the current generation of movie goers are missing out on something which once helped to make film entertainment, very special. However, in those days, we couldn't go out and buy our very own copy of the Ten Commandments on DVD to see at home, with all the extras. The best we could do was listen to the records with higher price tag.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-12-2004, 11:37 AM:

Sometimes the exhibitor's own sense of showmanship and knowledge of his audience and even the unique tradition of his theatre may override what comes down from the distributor. For example, no matter what is stuck onto the front of reel 1 before the actual start of the film (the start of the studio logo in most cases), be it trailers or at times even that ridiculous blue MPAA rating frame, it gets lopped off, because our traditional protocol is that there is a curtain close/open, and mask change between the cartoon/attraction reel and the main feature. Any attractions are removed from R1 and added to our C/A reel. The C/A reel is always projected at 1.37, so when the curtain opens for the feature, it is always wider than what preceded it. If there is a soundtrack available, we play a cut during that interval. We try to give every film a Roadshow treatment.

Sticking Mr. DeMille's clip between the overture and the first frame of the start of the film, as many have pointed out, is just not conducive to a natural flow of traditional Roadshow protocol. Unless he actually ended the clip with, "Ladies and Gentlemen, THIS is VistaVision" like Lowell Thomas did for Cinerama, there is no good reason why his monologue needs to be placed immediately before the main credits and after the Overture. And the Overture music DOES have a good reason to precede the start of the film because it is there to set a mood.

Usually a sacrosanct rule for exhibition is always to do the best to be true and faithful to the filmmaker's vision. But occasionally, like in this particular instance, faithfulness to the other tenant of exhibition should prevail -- that of making it look best for your audience.

Look, Cecil B. was old when he finished THE TEN COMMANDMENTS; perhaps he wasn't quite on the money when deciding where his monologue was to go. And anyway, he's dead and I'm not. [Big Grin]

Frank

Posted by Frank Aston (Member # 478) on 03-12-2004, 05:43 PM:

Forgive this rather belated contribution.
I ran this film during a re-release on the UK ABC circuit round about 1967. I had loved the music of Elmer Bernstein for years before this so the booking was a real treat.
I can definately confirm that DeMille's intro immediately preceeded the glorious red Paramount Logo which read "Paramount Presents - A Cecil B DeMille Production".
The sequencing was the same in the early 70's 70mm revival.
Just the thought of the powerful base chords which accompanied this striking image still sends shivers down my spine.
I feel the film looks a bit clunky now but still has scenes of extraordinary grandeour.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-12-2004, 06:26 PM:

A VHS release of this film (not the fancy red-box letterbox edition) DID feature the overture after DeMille's intro. However, all following releases on home video had the overture first.

Whne I saw the "70mm SuperVistaVision" re-release at the Bruin in Westwood, there was no overture (several 35mm previes were run). The Entre-acte was present, however.

Posted by Paul Vollmers (Member # 927) on 03-13-2004, 08:20 AM:

I just picked up my copy of the new DVD from Costco for $11.99 then saw it for $11.49 at Sams.....can't win........anyway was there suppose to be a paper chapter insert in this double disc set?
There was not one in mine.
To bad there isn't any good 70mm prints of this around for collectors that can show 70mm in there screen rooms.

Paul

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-13-2004, 09:54 AM:

THe 70mm prints were AWFUL. BADLY cropped to 2.2. The Dye transfer prints I saw of the 1972 re-release were superior in sharpness and clarity.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-13-2004, 01:50 PM:

Paul,

It is unfortunate Paramount did not learn from the dreadful mistake MGM made when they released "GONE WITH THE WIND" in 70mm by cropping off heads in a 2.20.1 reformat. I guess the thinking at the time when Paramount released THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" in 70mm meant it had to be 2.20.1 wide screen. I thought the 70mm blow up's in the 1.85.1 ratio of films such as "THE EMPIRE OF THE SUN" and "ET" were great! Although I have seen it in only 35mm, I never saw the fully restored version in 70mm and DTS sound, Robert Harris & James C. Katz did with Alfred Hitchcock's "VERTIGO". I heard it was magnificent. Here was a case where the full frame of the 8 perf VistaVision negative was not drastically cropped but presented exactly as composed in the original photography on the final prints.
I know many of you already know this but the neat thing about full frame VistaVision films in 70mm was the fact that the the image did not have be blown up as much as regular 35mm because there is 50% more image area to work with.

-Claude

I

[ 03-13-2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Claude S. Ayakawa ]

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 03-13-2004, 01:58 PM:

Last year i saw an old (1960s?) 70mm print which also was enlarged to 2.2:1, quite disappointing compared to old 35mm IB prints. If they convert VistaVision films to 70mm, it should not exceed 1.85:1 very much.
The additional enlargement makes the grain and matte lines of the optical work on TEN COMMANDMENTS look worse than in the 35mm versions, even when shown on the same size screen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-13-2004, 03:06 PM:

I have about 1000' of original dalies from the Ten Commandments in 8 perf VistaVision...although somewhat faded its still very runnable. This are several shots of a gazillion extras doing something......probably either pick up shots or B camera stuff.

There is also a hunk of Ten Commandments blown up to Imax up in Gords booth at the Cinesphere.

Mark