Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: white-on-white laser subtitles?

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-13-2004, 10:31 PM:

We're running Amores Perros this weekend (I'll post to FITA later...), and one of the annoying things about it is that the laser subtitles are sometimes on top of a white background, and thus are quite difficult to see.

I wondering (pretty speculatively) if there are any creative solutions to this problem, perhaps making use of the differences in the filmstock between laser-etched text and "apparent white."

In particular, I wondered if something creative could be done with polarization filters or gels to try to enhance the visible edge between the subtitles and the surrounding image?

I suppose another option would be something horrid like mixing food coloring dye with filmguard (no, I'm not going to try it).

I don't know if there's some optical way to enhance the grain (since the laser subtitles should be free of grain).

Does anyone have any experience mitigating this sort of problem?

--jhawk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-13-2004, 10:40 PM:

You could try stopping up the lens to decrease the depth of field.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-14-2004, 12:05 AM:

Why would decreasing the depth of field/focus help to improve the appearance of the subtitles?

In any case, I don't have a stock of slower lenses of the right focal length...

--jhawk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-14-2004, 12:07 AM:

You might get enough blur to make the text stand out.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-14-2004, 03:05 AM:

i would think a blurred field of white would look exactly the same as a sharp field of white. and sometimes subtitles on a white background simply cease to exist. they may be visible on the bench under reflected light (haven't tried) but on the screen they simply are not there. does the laser etch even if there is no image?

does white (clear) film have visible grain at all, if it's completely unexposed?

carl

Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 03-14-2004, 08:23 AM:

Generally, making the assuption that the distributor cares enough, this title problem, which goes back to the '30s, with long conversations in the Marcel Pagnol films taking place in kitchens against checked table cloths...

would be to create a special titled negative with a drop shadow.

With that exception, and by all other methods, via which a title is either held back with a title band, or burned in with a laser, is still going to be white.

Posted by Mattias Ohlson (Member # 1662) on 03-14-2004, 08:28 AM:

I am visually impaired and subtitles can be a big problem for me with white in bright surroundings.

Are there systemes to project subtitles below the picture. It must be an advantage for everyone if subtitles are projected below the picture.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-14-2004, 09:17 AM:

Maybe you could stretch a dark-colored cloth across the bottom of the screen and set it's height such that the titles project onto it. Black would probably be too dark, but a grayish color might provide a good enough contrast.

Not a very good idea, but if they can not be read at all......

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-14-2004, 10:32 AM:

I guess we're into the realm of theory here, but surely it would be possible to laser-burn the emulsion side of each print with an intensity strong enough to burn through one or two of the dye layers but not all three, thereby creating a text colour other than white (or, in the case of b/w stock, a shade other than completely transparent)? If so, then you could theoretically adjust the shade and contrast of the lettering to give some contrast in each individual shot. Not only would Pagnol's tablecloths be defeated, but I always have wondered exactly what Yves Montand mumbles shortly before blowing up the boulder in The Wages of Fear!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-14-2004, 11:59 AM:

Presumably, if the density of the print is within norm, even the whitest white created by the emulsion should still be darker than white created where the emulsion is completely burned away. This print must be unusually thin. Perhaps it is an anomoly and other prints might be more dense and would show subtitles more distinctly. Any possibility of asking for a substitute print? It might be a far shot, but one worth trying, because once those titles are burned, there isn't much else you can do to change the contrast. Projecting them thru a filter or on a darker surface will change both the titles and the background equally, resulting in exactly the same indistinction between the two, only darker. Laser etched and even chemical etched subtitles are supposed to FIX that problem of white text on white backgrounds. The difference in density is supposed to be enough that text can be easily read over white images. If they aren't then this really sounds like a print which was processed out of spec and is much less dense than normal.

I never could figure out why, with all that film geography wasted on 1.85 and even 1.66 titles, why they don't just print subtitles in the black area below the image. Yes, you would need a special lens for these prints, but if you are running a theatre that plays foreign, subtitled films regularly, chances are you would buy a lens sized for just that kind of process. Subtitles against black instead of the image itself -- what a concept.

And as long as we are talking in the "what if I were the king" mode, and we are printing titles in the black hard matted area, I would decree that translation text be etched ABOVE the picture instead of below -- super-titles as they are called; we do it all the time with live opera. No more craneing of one's neck to see over the shoulders of the guy in front just to read the subtitles; they would be up there right at the top of the picture, against black, not against the picture.

And hey, as long as we are in the realm of fantasy and etching titles in the hard matted wide frame-line area, my system would go one step further -- no reason why you couldn't put one language above the picture and another language below the picture. Depending on how you frame the thing, you'd have a tri-language film ....i.e.,the soundtrack language, the supertitles and the subtitles -- you'd see this on the reel-bands (or hand scribbled on the leader when there are no reel-bands as is common for foreign releases) --> "In Spanish with German sub and English super titles." And of course, in the country of origin, you would use the normal lens and there would be no translation at all.

Pretty neat, no?

Frank

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-14-2004, 05:21 PM:

maybe it's a result of poor q/c, but i have seen many prints where the laser titles have dark borders around the letters until they hit a pure white background, where they just disappear. i suppose this might predominantly be the case on old b&w dupes with too-high contrast, but i've seen it on newer color prints as well.

i do like your idea, frank, though i think most theaters would balk at the additional plates, etc. (it might be advantageous to have the aperture off-center vertically, so the image itself is centered without accounting for the text.

there is a system of electronic subtitles which i'm told the pacific film archive experimented with, although i never saw it. apparently there was a lot of negative feedback. perhaps it was hard to read, or perhaps the audience didn't like looking back and forth between the image and the text. i don't know. given that there are foreign films for which no english-language prints exist (shocking, i know), though, i think they should have retained the system as a last resort if nothing else.

carl

Posted by Christian Appelt (Member # 1067) on 03-14-2004, 05:29 PM:

There is no easy solution because any type/color of subtitles will get into conflict with some kind of background image pattern. I often have to subtitle (on video, however) for film theme exhibitions, and often there is no other choice than changing the subtitle color between scenes, because with certain background patterns even the drop shadow font will not really help.

When only certain scenes have to be subtitled, I don't understand why they cannot afford doing a DI with good drop shadow subtitles instead of fuzzy white titles. Right now, here in Germany there are many complaints because of the subtitled scenes in TIMELINE which are totally out of focus.
The craziest subtitles I remember were in Russ Meyer's SUPERVIXEN'S (1975), they said "I wonder if the f***ing you get is worth the f***ing you get" and were superimposed in a pseudo-germanic "Old English" type font - but at least sharp and IIRC drop shadowed... [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-14-2004, 11:51 PM:

quote:
laser-burn the emulsion side of each print with an intensity strong enough to burn through one or two of the dye layers but not all three, thereby creating a text colour other than white

No cigar for this one, Leo;-) Unfortunately, with both the current laser systems, the chemical etching system and the printing overlay system, you have the same problem. There is little or no image-forming colour dye in the white parts of the scene. So even laser burning one or two layers won't produce a title with any colour in it.

Laser-etched subtitles sometimes leave a little burn-mark around the edges (like a cigarette burn) which helps. Chemical etching is much less readable against white, so is the overlay system.

Surtitles at the top of the frame would be far worse: there is far more white sky in scenes than white ground! Japanese and Korean titles are sometimes printed down the right hand side (sometimes with English or another language across the bottom). More problems!

I believe Dolby have a system for projecting subtitles using a low-end video projector, and a title list cued by a framecount or timecode driven by the film projector. And there was another one around a few years back which used one of those LED displays used in shop windows etc.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-15-2004, 12:23 AM:

I think you're thinking of the DTS-CCS Cinema Subtitling System.

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-15-2004, 01:11 AM:

I said:

quote:
I believe Dolby have a system for projecting subtitles

Daryl said:

quote:
I think you're thinking of the DTS-CCS Cinema Subtitling System.

Actually I'm thinking of the Dolby system

Dolby Screentalk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-15-2004, 01:20 AM:

I thought they had one, but couldn't find it. I guess I thought I was thinking of the DTS system. [Smile]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-15-2004, 01:24 AM:

quote:
I believe Dolby have a system for projecting subtitles using a low-end video projector, and a title list cued by a framecount or timecode driven by the film projector. And there was another one around a few years back which used one of those LED displays used in shop windows etc.

My local cinema has spent the last year testing Screentalk on an experimental basis. It's basically a PC which takes a timecode feed out of the Dolby cinema processor, and feeds subtitle data from a CD-ROM to an Eiki XGA data projector in print. The subtitles have a black border round each character and they look very crisp, even against a light background. One big advantage of the system for arthouse venues and those on a budget is that the video projector can also be used for other things.

The big drawback, however, is that because it synchronises the subtitle projection using the Dolby digital soundtrack, it's no good if the film doesn't have Dolby digital. That rules out 99% of archive prints and rerelease titles and a high proportion of newly released foreign language titles, too. I guess that Dolby developed it as a means of providing hearing impaired subtitles for mainstream films rather than helping out Pagnol's tablecloth.

Again I'm hypothesising, but it should theoretically be possible to laser-burn a simple timecode which could be picked up by a reader mounted in the film path and used to synchronise subtitle projection for small-run prints of arthouse titles. But unlike with today's laser subtitled prints, that would mean cinemas having to invest in new kit, so I doubt if it will happen...

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 03-15-2004, 04:05 AM:

The Edinburgh Filmhouse uses Dolby Screentalk to provide subtitled screenings for the hard of hearing (rather than getting a special print).

During the film festival they use it for subtitling some foreign language films (which do not have on film subtitles). Last years brochure had a section warning that the 'soft titled' translations would not be as good qualty as on film subtitling.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-15-2004, 04:11 AM:

Marl, the 'soft titling' with foreign language isn't done with the screentalk system. It's a video projector and PC, often with the translator typing live from the auditoreum. This is somethign that the EIFF has done for many, many years in most of the festival venues. It used to be projected onto a small strip screen temporarily mounted just below the BPL. Not sure if they've taken to projecting the titles onto the main screen now.

That said there is no reason why the screentalk system couldn't do this and do it well. As long as the software was available for a given title.......... (Here we go again!)

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-15-2004, 08:30 AM:

My, how threads drift.

It seems obvious to me that you wouldn't need to laser-burn timecode into a print. Just use a shaft encoder and be done with it. It's not as if you need subtitles to be frame-accurate. They're probably fine within a second or so, and therefore one would not have to worry about transitions across non-major "edits" (i.e. splices from removal of damaged film, mid-frame lab splices, etc.), and projectionists could just fill those with black anyhow.

We actually do have a DTS-CSS system with Rear-Window Captioning. Though it's possible to move the caption display from the rear of the room to the front and turn off the mirror-image, though we've never had call to do so. The difficulty, of course, is getting the titles. For Amores Perros, I suppose we could have "just" stripped them from the DVD...

--jhawk

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-15-2004, 09:22 AM:

The quality and readability of laser-etched subtitles is very dependent on the power levels used to ablate the emulsion. Usually there is some charring of the edges of the letters, giving an outline around each letter. Prints can sometimes be "rewashed" in an aqueous bath to remove any burned debris after titling, which will tend to "soften" the edges. Excessive power can actually char/melt the polyester support, giving a crawling "wormy" look inside the letters.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-15-2004, 11:02 AM:

quote:
It seems obvious to me that you wouldn't need to laser-burn timecode into a print. Just use a shaft encoder and be done with it.

That fine for systems like Imax where the film is handled so carefully that no frames are ever lost (or rather, if they are, they're replaced), but in the rough and tumble of the fleapits and film societies that foreign language films on 35mm end up here, it would be no good. All it would take is to lose a couple of feet in an 'accident' of some sort and the subtitles would be out of synch. Unless, that is, you did what they did in the days of sound-on-disc and replaced each frame of lost print with the equivalent length of opaque spacing. But Vitaphone prints had a footage number (sequential from the start of the reel) marked between the perforations every 16 frames, so projectionists knew accurately how much film had to be replaced. If you're going to faff around doing that, you might just as well put a timecode on (though it should be possible to design one which is both human and machine-readable).

quote:
For Amores Perros, I suppose we could have "just" stripped them from the DVD...

The copyright to subtitle scripts is often owned by the translation agencies which produce them and licensed to the theatrical/home video/broadcast markets separately from the film itself. So even if you could rip the subtitle data from a DVD (pretty straightforward, I'd have thought) and then synchronise the playback with a film projection (an unmitigated nightmare, I'd have thought, especially if the DVD is PAL 'cause of the 24/25fps speed issue), there would probably be some legal problems...

Posted by Patrick de Groot (Member # 858) on 03-16-2004, 07:14 AM:

>>They're probably fine within a second or so, and therefore one would not have to worry about transitions across non-major "edits" (i.e. splices from removal of damaged film, mid-frame lab splices, etc.), and projectionists could just fill those with black anyhow.<<
Its obvious your from the USofA. Subtitles need to be closely timed with the spoken text and events on screen. If not, it is very distracting to the viewer. Ofcourse the subtitling/translation itself must also be done properly.
I also find it distracting if some Holywood film comes with English subtitling that makes part of the picture. And it is often ugly text for that part to.
Please go see some properly subtitled films if you visit the Netherlands [Smile]

There are some diferrent "lettertypes" in use, from narrow lines to bold.
TLOTR had at some point black subtitles when the scene was very, very white.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-16-2004, 08:08 AM:

Their are laser optical recorders available to burn in DTS time code to existing prints to allow for sub-title use. We where looking into this issue for an archive with 4000 - 35mm prints that where using a P.C. tied to a shaft encoder to show sub-titles. the unit has push buttons to advance or retard the sub-title information shown if they get out of sync. They wanted a simple solution to display sub-titles in four other venues so as not to rely on the projectionist for sync issues. As with any government agency this has turned into a multi-year situation to obtain final budget requirements.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-16-2004, 01:26 PM:

quote:
Subtitles need to be closely timed with the spoken text and events on screen. If not, it is very distracting to the viewer.

but not as closely timed as the dialogue, and it's less catastrophic if it's off by just a little.

quote:
TLOTR had at some point black subtitles when the scene was very, very white.

wow, i've never seen that (but would love to). how is it done -- lasering the interneg as well?

carl

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-16-2004, 01:30 PM:

I'd agree with Patrick that the subtitles need to be pretty spot on. It's extremely annoying -- about equally annoying as mis-synced dialog -- when the subtitles are off even a little if you can understand both the spoken dialog and the subtitles.

Posted by Ivo Noorlander (Member # 1315) on 03-16-2004, 03:47 PM:

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TLOTR had at some point black subtitles when the scene was very, very white.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wow, i've never seen that (but would love to). how is it done -- lasering the interneg as well?

Lord of the Rings had overlay subtitles. It's a seperate piece of film with the subs, so you could probably make any color you want.

I wish every theater in The Netherlands had DTS-CSS/Dolby Screentalk, because another problem with subtitles is that more often than not you can't get them and the picture in perfect focus at the same time...

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-16-2004, 09:18 PM:

quote:
Lord of the Rings had overlay subtitles. It's a seperate piece of film with the subs, so you could probably make any color you want.

Not so. Overlay titles come on a separate negative (OK so far) as black lettering on a clear background. This is printed in contact with the image negative and raw print stock, so that the lettering prevents any exposure on the print. This results in white letters.

Coloured, rather than black, titles on the overlay (difficult as it's made on b/w stock!) would only lead to coloured titles that were lighter than the background scene at that point. Black titles would be impossible to achieve. Any black titles would have to be printed into the image negative at duplication stage, on an optical printer (thus requiring a specific negative for that particular language). That's possible of course - but it's not overlay.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 03-17-2004, 01:32 AM:

Would it be possible (and feasible) to re-expose the release print stock to a subtitle negative with clear lettering on a black background, so as to create black subtitles without a dedicated internegative?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-17-2004, 01:38 AM:

Once the dye layers are gone, they're sort of gone for good. You ain't gettin' black. [Smile]

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 03-17-2004, 01:50 AM:

I meant, before the print is processed. [Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-17-2004, 05:09 PM:

One thing I have noticed about laser subtitles is that when you treat the print with FilmGuard, the letters shimmer a bit as the liquid goes into the voids in the film emulsion. It helps the lettering stand out just a bit over the background and even makes the words appear to hover over the picture a bit. After the print has been run through the cleaner a few times the effect goes away but it makes me think.

Would it be possible to apply some kind of dye or pigmented solution to the film that would go down into the voids in the emulsion to give them a bit of color in order to make them stand out? It would have to be something that wouldn't be absorbed by the untouched parts of the film so as not to stain the entire picture.

The main problem I see is that such a dye, if it could exist, would have to be applied only to the parts of the film with subtitles that need extra contrast. The amount of work to complete such a process would probably be prohibitive. No?

I don't know... Just a spitball...

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-17-2004, 05:21 PM:

Ahem! Randy.

Paragraph 4 of the very first post in this thread: "I suppose another option would be something horrid like mixing food coloring dye with filmguard"

--jhawk

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-17-2004, 05:41 PM:

Yes, I guess I wasn't being clear about my thought.

What YOU said about FilmGuard made me remember MY observations about FilmGuard and THAT made me think.

Specifically, I was thinking about something like "Spot Tone #O" retouching dye. If done carefully and with proper dilution to a still photo, one can apply it to a small section of the film/print and quickly blot up the excess. Thus, you will be left with dye in only the places where you want it to go.

This is, of course, quite a laborious process even when done with one small piece of film or print. I can imagine what a bitch it would be to apply to long sections of motion picture film. That is what I meant about it being prohibitive to apply to a whole movie.

[Wink]

What's the matter? Can't you read my mind? [Razz]

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-17-2004, 05:54 PM:

Hooters girls holding up "cue cards" just below the screen. [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-17-2004, 07:37 PM:

quote:
I meant, before the print is processed.

Yes it would be possible.
Trouble is, it would more than double the printing time , thereby increasing the cost of each print, as well as delaying the production.
The distributors have a very simple answer to that.
[Frown]

White is usually the best bet, even though more complex alternatives would produce a more readable result. (a) it's easier) and (b) the bottom of the frame is less often white than any other colour.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 03-18-2004, 03:27 AM:

how much does your average laser-subtitling job cost, compared to the cost of producing the print in the first place? and how long does it take to apply them? can they be applied while the film moves continuously?

and is it any less costly than christopher's second-exposure black titles would be? maybe it would be worthwhile for a small run. as long as there are no derogatory effects on the rest of the image.

carl

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-18-2004, 10:00 AM:

Subtitling:

http://www.geocities.com/karamitroglou/agencies.html

quote:
Subtitling Agencies & Software Manufacturers

Here is Titra's process for subtitling:

http://www.titrafilm.com/TitraEn/pagesEn/laser_subtitling.html

quote:
LASER ENGRAVING

PRINCIPLE
A laser beam that destroys the film emulsion and leaves the film’s base transparent does the engraving of the titles on the film. The letter engraved in this way will appear white in projection.

ENGRAVING
The film print, in order to be engraved, goes through a subtitling machine. This machine is piloted by a computer equipped with software that integrates the time-coded subtitle file obtained after the simulation, and positions the images that are to be engraved. The laser beam engraves each subtitle on 24 images per reading-time second. We may thus estimate that 80,000 subtitles are engraved for a standard film !

FILM PROCESSING

Polyester film prints need to be processed after laser engraving. TITRA FILM has developed a copyrighted subtitling process that includes an emulsion processing. The film passes through a special machine that immerges the film in different cleaning baths. These various treatments allow for better subtitle quality.

VIEWING

After these operations are completed, each film print is verified on a viewing table, or in a screening room. The purpose of this inspection is to evaluate the quality of the subtitles, and to detect possible errors before the film is delivered to the client.

Here is Industrial Automation Integrators, a supplier of laser subtitling equipment:

http://www.iai.nl/1024/Frame1024.html

quote:
LSS-105 System Description

Ever since the delivery of the first Laser Subtitling System, IAI is setting the standards. We are continuously improving our systems to provide a higher output and/or to reduce the operational cost.

IAI was the first company to introduce the solid state diode pumped laser on Laser Subtitling Systems in the middle of 1997. This means that these Systems have proven their reliability in practice.

Our continuous development resulted in the fastest Laser Subtitling System that is available on the market. Subtitling with a speed of well over 300 subtitles per hour (on Polyester films) is NOT an exception.

Benchmarking proves that the LSS-105 Laser Subtitling System is at least 20% faster than what we believe is the fastest system of the competition.

The price / performance of the LSS-105 will result in the lowest cost per print, which is the most crucial factor in the subtitling business

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/inquiries/capmovie/acc.htm

quote:
Costs

The cost of producing laser-etched prints is around US$2,050 for the first print of the movie and then US$1,150 for any additional prints. This is based on an average length movie with about 1,000 captions. This is based on information provided by Industrial Automation Integrators, a Dutch company that distributes the laser etching equipment.

The basic cost of producing the captions is $1,560 per hour ($2,340 for a 90-minute feature). This is a one-off cost no matter how many prints are made.

Therefore, a single print of around 90 minutes would cost about $6,000 to produce open captions (including freight and other incidental costs). Each additional print would be about $2,000.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-18-2004, 12:23 PM:

quote:
Therefore, a single print of around 90 minutes would cost about $6,000 to produce open captions (including freight and other incidental costs). Each additional print would be about $2,000.

And that's for only one language! Imagine the cost of having to create a print inventory with subtitles for the entire world market.

Geez, with this cost model, any producer who doesn't put DTS code on his print would be foolish. Even if he's not using it for DTS sound, it seems like the DTS subtitling system would be the cheapest, most cost effective way to deal with the subtitling issue. One print, but it's good for as many different languages as you need. And of course it give the producer the great advantage of not having the nightmarish tracking issues associated with where prints are going. Any print could be used in any country with the great advantage that prints overseas could be recalled to the US in a pinch and used without any subtitles at all. In the afterlife, that would be a significant advantage to art houses since on any number of occasions the best condition prints can be found overseas. I've had to pay shipping from the UK to get a decent, playable print. But suppose there were no good prints in the UK either, if subtitling moved into the "off the print" realm of the DTS system, any print from any part of the world would play fine in my theatre and I wouldn't have to have Japanese or Croation subtitles across the bottom of my screen.

OK, so the rest of the world has to buy DTS systems and video projectors....not my problem. [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-18-2004, 08:43 PM:

quote:
Geez, with this cost model, any producer who doesn't put DTS code on his print would be foolish.

quote:
OK, so the rest of the world has to buy DTS systems and video projectors....not my problem.

Oh Great! Frank. What a wonderful idea. Theatres having to buy new equipment to show subtitles to save the distributors money. Have you entered into the debate about digital cinema yet - or the one about cyan soundtracks? YOu'll have some real fans on this list. [Smile]

But why just the rest of the world? Don't US theatres ever show non-English language films? [Smile]

The rest of the (non-English-speaking) world freqently shows foreign language (i.e. American) films. They "have to have Japanese or Croation (sic) subtitles across the bottom of (their) screen".

Anyway, before long you'll probably all have to provide subtitles for the hearing-impaired, for legal anti-disability-discrimination reasons.

We supply prints of US features for many of the SE Asian countries, mostly subtitled: sometimes by overlay, sometimes they are lasered (not by us) in the destination country.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-18-2004, 10:48 PM:

Frank, I believe that John's $2340 figure is the cost to actually transcribe the film into captions. So that cost must be payed regardless of what form of captioning you use. So it's not fair to ignore it in your proposed system.

--jhawk