Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Motor replacement for CFS Super platters

This is topic Motor replacement for CFS Super platters in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005954

Posted by Stephen Wilkinson (Member # 1463) on 03-14-2004, 11:09 PM:

Hi All,

A few of them have made their way "down under" and I need a replacement motor for 240 Volts.

I have searched the archives for info on the infamous CFS (Blue) Platters, many discussions on how crap they are, but not a great deal on the motors.
Someone suggested a "lamb?" motor and modification. Are they Ametek?

I know that they are basically Vacuum cleaner motors, but I'm having trouble finding specs to get a match.

I need info on Wattage/rpms or any model number might help, and details on the mods required would be great.

BTW haven't had many problems with them when setup correct. [Smile]

But they are very mechanical, give me electronic ones any day.

Thanks

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 03-14-2004, 11:12 PM:

99% of the time on my platter motors the problem is just worn down brushes. You may want to look into just replacing the brushes and not the whole motor.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-15-2004, 12:48 AM:

The motors on your platter are all run from a Variac cutting the voltage down to around 30 volts. The raw motor is an Ametek-Lamb model 115750 (here in the USA we get them from www.grainger.com as part number 2M262). You modify the motor by removing it's outer cover and transfering the wiring harness, resistors, and mounting hardware from the old motor to the new one. Of course if you want the motor to be blue in color you'll have to spray paint it blue.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-15-2004, 12:49 AM:

Chris, the bushings are more prone to failure than the brushes on CFS motors.

Stephen: Lamb Electric (division of Ametek) is the OEM supplier of the motors to LIT (formerly CFS) and Strong.
The motors are not available at retail (the Grainger part number 2M262 motor DOES NOT work for CFS or early Potts platters as the shaft lengths are different.)

Contact Dick Niccum at Lighting Images Technologies- he can supply factory-new Lamb motors pre-drilled for CFS hardware (they require modification for Strong/Potts) for about US $80 each.

Dick's email address is: dick.niccum@lightingimages.com .

Too bad you brought this up now, as I had converted several 220V CFS motors to 120V and discarded the unusable 220V parts [Frown]

Good Luck,

-Aaron

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-15-2004, 12:54 AM:

Aaron:

I have been using the Grainger 2M262 motor for several years for the Strong/Potts motors and have not had any problems with shaft size. They work perfectly.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-15-2004, 12:59 AM:

You may be right for the later (Alpha, A3) Strong motors, but the 2M262 has a much shorter shaft length making it unuseable on CFS and early Potts motors, as the drive capstan will not fit the short shaft.

-Aaron

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 03-15-2004, 12:59 AM:

My old theater had blue CFS platters and one of the motors would not run as strong as the rest (it would run about half as fast). We took it to a motor repair shop and they said it was fine. We tried putting it on different decks but had the same problem. Any ideas as to what might have been wrong with it?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-15-2004, 01:04 AM:

John it sounds like you got a hold of a 220V motor (we had a bunch of them at one time and they have since been converted to 120V), or someone may have used a wrong size resistor when replacing a broken one.

-Aaron

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-15-2004, 01:28 AM:

When using the 2M262 motor I keep a stock of the various diameter/length "Drive Hubs" (or capstans as you call them). Here are the Strong/Potts numbers and sizes:

1190 Drive Hub, 1/2" diameter by 2" long

1747 Drive Hub, 3/8" diameter by 2" long

1630 Drive Hub, 3/8" diameter by 1-1/4" long

2931 Drive Hub, 1/2" diameter by 1-1/4" long

Posted by Stephen Wilkinson (Member # 1463) on 03-15-2004, 10:42 PM:

Thank you for your input.

The "Capstan" on my motor is 1/2" diameter by 2" long, this screws onto the motor after removing the original nut that holds the fan on.

Is this the correct capstain for the grainger 2M262?

The shaft on the original motor sticks out of the housing by 20mm or about a 3/4"

The depth of the housing looks deeper also on the grainger. Is this correct?

If I can source a motor locally that would be easier than importing one.

Stephen

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-16-2004, 03:16 AM:

quote:
Is this the correct capstain for the grainger 2M262?

No. The shaft on the 2M262 is not long enough to engage the threads on the CFS capstan.

quote:
The shaft on the original motor sticks out of the housing by 20mm or about a 3/4"

I would guess around 1 1/4"-1 1/2" with the nut removed. The shaft on the 2M262 is about 3/4" long with the nut removed.

quote:
The depth of the housing looks deeper also on the grainger. Is this correct?

Yes, the 2M262 has a larger impeller housing, it should not be a problem with later Strong/Potts platters.

Additionally, the 2M262 motor is 120V.

-Aaron

Posted by Stephen Wilkinson (Member # 1463) on 03-16-2004, 04:40 AM:

Thank you Aaron and Ken for the input.

On my "Blue" 220 Volt motor, the shaft, with Capstan and nut removed (not washer), is 1 1/8th" long.
So it clears / sticks out past the housing by 13/16th" To be exact. [Smile]

I re-measured it when I found a ruler with inches on it. [Smile]

So as you say Aaron the 2M262 probably wouldn't work unless Ken has any other ideas.

I realize that the 2M262 is the 120 volt version, but I thought I might then be able to find an equivalent 220 volt motor.

I was talking to a supplier here for Ametek, he didn't think they had any motors with a shaft that cleared the outer case of the impeller?

Still searching.

Thanks again.
Stephen

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-16-2004, 10:02 AM:

Stephan:

What if you flipped the capstan end-for-end? Would the threads then work? The drive hubs (capstans) sold for Strong/Potts are threaded (internally) at one end only so naturally if you didn't have the threaded end oriented correctly it wouldn't fit.

I think the Ametek/Lamb motor number 116111-00 (Grainger 4M901) may be your 220 volt equivalent.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-16-2004, 10:06 AM:

Why doesn't one of you guys just send the poor guy a motor [Cool]

????

Mark

Posted by Stephen Wilkinson (Member # 1463) on 03-17-2004, 06:28 AM:

I like your lateral thinking Ken. [Smile]

I looked at it, the thread doesn't start at the other end, just in a bit 3/8th", which would be alright, but the internal diameter is smaller and won't go over the shaft.

I could try to drill it out to where the thread starts?

I sent an e-mail to Dick Niccum the other day to see what input he could add, haven't heard yet.

Thanks
Stephen

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-18-2004, 10:21 AM:

Just to update this thread, Stephen:

Someone just gave me a blue CFS Super Platter motor to experiment on. It is a standard USA 120 volt model.

There are a couple of ways to identify what Ametek-Lamb (www.ameteklamb.com) motor you have in order to cross reference repairing/replacing it. Ametek-Lamb likes to rubber stamp certain parts of the motor with some numbers. The Ametek-Lamb motor # 115750 (also known as the Grainger # 2M262) has the number "750" rubber stamped on the die cast aluminum bearing holder frame near the brushes. Ametek puts the last 3 digits of the motor number on that frame. Hence 750 = motor # 115750. Take the covers (with the toggle switch) off for a look inside several of your motors to see what numbers are stamped there. Sometimes the frame gets very dirty with carbon dust so be careful about cleaning it off lest you clean the numbers off the frame! Also, on the side of the field winding metal laminations is the Ametek part number for the field coil which would identify it's voltage. On the 120 volt models it should be rubber stamped "315737".

The CFS platter motor I was given has never had anything done to it so it's all original. The motor metal laminations are rubber stamped 315737 indicating it's a 120 volt motor. The rear bearing frame is rubber stamped 750 so it is indeed a # 115750 (a.k.a. Grainger 2M262) motor! Perhaps it is one of the earliest versions (now obsolete) that had a longer threaded shaft for the CFS capstan (or "drive hub" as Strong/Potts calls them). You could order a Strong or Potts # 1190 Drive Hub (1/2" diameter by 2" long) and use that in place of the original CFS capstan.

Ametek-Lamb did have some early versions of their motors with a longer threaded shaft but they are long since discontinued and were replaced with the length like on the 115750 (2M262). That's where you would now use one of the Potts or Strong "drive hubs" in place of the original CFS 'capstan'. The Potts/Strong drive hubs are made of steel and are drilled all the way through to make it easy to tighten it to the shaft with a pair of pliers and an Allen wrench.

Just for my reference, is the power in Australia 220 volt or 240 volt?

Posted by Jonathan Worthing (Member # 803) on 08-19-2004, 07:01 AM:

One common fault I have found is the switch on the motor.
It has a bad solder Joint on it. This with the temperature the resistor gets up to it has a tendency to break the joint.

As it under strain it is not always evident that it has broken.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-19-2004, 08:38 AM:

I can't believe after all these posts that no one has suggested installing a REAL platter system in its place......
Dam "Stupid Platters"
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jonathan Worthing (Member # 803) on 08-19-2004, 10:53 AM:

hmmm It's nice to have hold of the purse strings

Posted by John A. Parker Jr. (Member # 1719) on 08-19-2004, 11:14 AM:

If you have a complete system that runs on 120 volts, then you will have to replace the autotransformer as well.
But if the whole thing is still at 120 volts, just buy a step-down transformer from 240 to 120 volts.
John A. Parker Jr.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-20-2004, 12:15 AM:

The unthreaded holes on the 2M262 motor are usually threaded to 10-24 threads if doing a Strong/Potts motor. On a Super Platter motor though the mounting holes are drilled out larger diameter and threaded to 1/4"-20 threads.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-27-2004, 11:02 AM:

I successfully did a Super Platter motor with the Grainger 2M262 and definitely had to drill out and tap all the mounting holes to 1/4"-20 threads. I will be doing 5 more of these motors in the near future, I just need to pick them up from the theater.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-28-2004, 04:01 AM:

Yea..I've done a dozen or so of them 2M262 Grainger/Lamb changeouts with these A3/AP3 Alpha/Strong Platters (if anyone want's a pict detail of how to do the changeout, my address is mlf1142@msn.com and I'll send you a pictorial instructions on how to do it that I've put together in saving hundreds of dollars from buying stock Strong "vacuum motors"..and most of these changes were due to the bearings going out, or the fan decides to go off-center and vibrates horribly-brushes are easy to change out..), and yes, after removing the front chamber cover, removing the nut, fan and belt pulley (save the washer..)remove the diffuser blades from the front of the second stage cover, remove the shim shaft from the old assembly that runs the "O" ring drive tire assembly, re-wire and re-assemble in reverse. Bingo-save a bunch. (yea, "StupidPlatters" - CFS is gone...like PerkinElmers -)..

Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-28-2004, 07:20 AM:

Monte,
And you can save hundreds more by sending the bad motors down to us for rebuild. Yes, they can almost alwyas be rebuilt. Generally costs about 1 hour shop labor.

Mark

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-28-2004, 10:20 AM:

Monte:

I've already been sending out a step-by-step pictorial on how to do the Strong motors to Grainger 2M262 for over a year now. I have a thread here on the Film Handlers Forum discussing this already.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-28-2004, 10:25 PM:

Thx Marko. I'll swing that by Robert and see if he wants to do that service that you offered, for I have a bunch of old motors needing rebuilt that we can use again that I've changed out.

Being a "newbie" in this forum, it was worth a try to help out,for I didn't know that the thread on motor replacement was already posted.

But since we're picking on the "Strong" side of things, (and if this has already been posted as well, please disregard): Grainger also have the microswitches for those brains that uses the (damnable) switch for the A3/AP3 platers that I've discovered recently. Grainger's 6X284 switch, where one must remove the spring underneath the tab to make the tab more sensitive to the payout arm. These are bucks cheaper than Strong's price. thx-Monte