Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: MGM to go Cyan in May

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Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 03-19-2004, 02:09 PM:

In case you are not following the 26 plus page Cyan Track thread, please check out page 26. John Pytlak posted the MGM Press Release, and it is big news.

MGM will be going Cyan for the analog soundtracks starting with the release of "Soul Plane" in the end of May. Then every subsequent release my MGM will also have cyan dye analog tracks.

This is a big step, following DreamWorks' cyan release, "Anything Else," as this is a "from here on out" announcement from MGM.

Don't be surprised if another studio, or two, make similar announcements in the very near future.

Start spreading the news...

Hope to see you all at ShoWest next week.

Yours, Ted

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-19-2004, 02:19 PM:

Oh well. It's just MGM. What was the last good movie they put out worth booking anyway...Thelma and Louise??? [Razz]

(Sorry Ted, couldn't resist! [Wink]

)

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-19-2004, 06:00 PM:

M-G-M = Muddy - Garbled - Muffled sound

Cyan = [bs]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-19-2004, 06:26 PM:

I guess we'll be saying Cyanara to the old tracks pretty soon.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-19-2004, 07:27 PM:

Maybe if we get 75,000 people to pledge to skip showering and flushing we can keep our Higher Quality existing soundtracks.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-19-2004, 08:29 PM:

There are already too many people in this business that skip showers.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-20-2004, 12:48 AM:

Link to John's post.

Link to DyeTracks.org annoucemnet.

Who wants to take bets on this? [Smile]

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 03-20-2004, 11:58 AM:

Do you have a gambling problem Daryl? You sure have been trying to mak ea lot of bets lately. [Smile]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-20-2004, 12:18 PM:

I'm in 'Vegas--I'll take that action. I can see it now, a betting line at the Bally's and Paris' sports books during ShoWest:

6 to 5 Cyan vs. Applicated

Oh the money I'll make off the vig on this one. Split it with you Daryl... [Big Grin]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-20-2004, 03:54 PM:

I only have a gambling problem when I get caught counting cards too long. Otherwise, it's been more of a solution, covering the cost of most of my textbooks.

Sounds good to me Paul.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-20-2004, 06:57 PM:

Maybe you need one of those shoe computers to help with the card counting. [Big Grin]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-20-2004, 07:21 PM:

Cheating would take all the fun out of it. Especially if I were to get caught by the casino Indians.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-20-2004, 10:27 PM:

Daryl, textbooks? I dun think so. When I see titles on yur desk as:

"Debbie Does Dallas"
"Female Sexual Behavior: And How To Get Some"
"Girls Gone Wild: The Picture Album"

And many other titles similar to those, I find it hard to believe what you spout.

>>> Phil

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-21-2004, 10:01 AM:

And ah Phil what text books are on your desk may we ask [Smile]

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-22-2004, 06:26 AM:

Gordie:

Perl Core Language Little Black Book
Dell Latitude X200
Embedded Systems Signal Processing Theory
C Blue Book
DNS and BIND
Apache Server Little Black Book
Wireless Hacks

All were recommended to me by Daryl. [beer]

Now, for what I have on my nightstand.... [Wink]

>>> Phil

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-22-2004, 11:48 AM:

We received a fax from Technicolor this morning, making this official as of the May 28 release of "Soul Plane".

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 03-22-2004, 12:16 PM:

Well, looks like that movie will flop.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-22-2004, 02:18 PM:

Ha! [Big Grin]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-22-2004, 07:12 PM:

I hope they get it right this time and do only the analog track with cyan and not all the tracks like they did on anything else.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-22-2004, 07:50 PM:

Why? Dolby has already confirmed that a cyan Dolby Digital track works just as well as a black one. Although I'd imagine that a single dye track might wear faster.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-22-2004, 09:51 PM:

Why not? There is no environmental reason to make the SRD track cyan. It never used any silver application so if it ain't broke don't fix it. You most likely will see a drop in focus levels using a white light Dolby Digital reader. That could possably increase the error rates. But I don't know for sure.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-23-2004, 11:57 PM:

What would be the effect of doing the non-applicated analog track in all layers (YCM)? Should have no detrimental affect on red light readers which only "see" cyan. How many dB would we pick up for white light readers?

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 03-24-2004, 12:10 PM:

quote:
Although I'd imagine that a single dye track might wear faster.

Like the Cyan SDDS track? [eyes]

=TMP=

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-24-2004, 05:08 PM:

Barely. There are few things that would actually wear on the analog sound track like the SDDS or Dolby Digital tracks.

edit: I forgot we were talking about the dolby digital track

Posted by Dominic Case (Member # 1830) on 03-24-2004, 05:53 PM:

quote:
Although I'd imagine that a single dye track might wear faster.

No it won't.

The top layer on the film is a protective supercoat. Under that is the magenta dye layer, then the cyan one, with the yellow on the bottom. Those layers are there whether they contain dye or not, and whether they contain silver or not.

So - firstly - if there is any emulsion damage due to wear, it would remove dye from a high magenta track or a conventional track before it reached the cyan layer. And secondly, there is far less reason for a Dolby SRD track or an analogue track to "wear" than there is for a SDDS track, which is cyan anyway.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-24-2004, 06:04 PM:

I don't believe I've ever seen a high magenta Dolby Digital track... only black and cyan ones. So we're short one protected layer of dye... the yellow one.

Of course, if you've worn through that many layers the reader is probably going to have a hard time reading it anyway.

As for wear, there's definetely far less reason for either of the Dolby Digital or analog tracks from wearing in comparison to the SDDS track, but there still is significantly 'enough reason' for wear of the Dobly Digital track. Preventable wear? You bet, but so are scratches, and we all know those exist.

Anyway, I've got no problem with a cyan Dolby Digital track, if for no other reason I like the colour. [Smile]

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 03-24-2004, 06:06 PM:

I think it would be better if the Dolby digital track was not as it is in the above picture. With white light Digital readers it will possably give higher error rates.

I don't see why the SRD track would not get just as much wear as the SDDS tracks. They both have to slide through the gate making the same contact to the bands and rails.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-28-2004, 10:10 PM:

In color print film, the yellow layer is at the bottom of the emulsion "pack", and is the least sharp and most grainy of the three dye layers. Not a good choice for carrying any of the analog sound record. The topmost magenta layer is the sharpest, with the cyan close to it. Cyan was chosen because of the wide deployment of red LED readers, with a 660nm peak output matching the peak density of the cyan dye.

A cyan+magenta track without silver would still have a low signal level on a tungsten reader, because the dyes are quite transparent to infrared. Many theatres have found this when they received a reel that accidently was processed without viscous soundtrack developer being applied.

The Dolby Digital track on color prints is dye only (no silver). It is printed with a separate light source in the printer, so its color has nothing to do with how the analog track is printed. Tests are in progress to determine the optimum color balance for the Dolby Digital track.

Posted by Ted Costas (Member # 473) on 03-31-2004, 02:14 PM:

Did ya all see the article in the Hollywood Reporter on Monday the 22nd. MGM and Disney and making the move, officially.

I'm back from Vegas, where I won every bet I placed. Were we going to wager on something here? I'd hate to take your money, but a friendly gentleman's wager might be appropriate...

Pick one or all of the below:

That more Studios will jump on board?

That MGM will have a problem free release of "Soul Plane", like DreamWorks did on "Anything Else"?

That the fact that the Studios are stepping up to the plate on this technological change shows the way a successful partnership between Distribution and Exhibition can work?

Did I leave anything out?

Yours, Ted

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-31-2004, 03:40 PM:

Apparently the Cyan Dye Tracks Committee is composed of the only ones in this industry who can get anything changed.

Now, as a side project, let's get these same people to get the studios to take the friggin' release dates out of the trailers! [Smile]

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 03-31-2004, 04:00 PM:

Can anyone confirm that Shrek 2 is going to be released May 21 with a Cyan track?
That's what my booker is telling me.
I don't see it announced anywhere else.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-01-2004, 07:46 AM:

I have NOT heard anything about "Shrek 2" being released with cyan dye analog tracks, although Mark Christiansen of Dreamworks was pleased with how last September's release of Woody Allen's "Anything Else" went:

quote:
DTC's first success came when DreamWorks, headed by distribution chief Jim Tharp and operations head Mark Christiansen, released Woody Allen's "Anything Else" with a cyan soundtrack in a limited theatrical run in September (HR 7/16). DTC worked overtime in advance, waging an aggressive fax and film-can flier campaign aimed at making theater owners aware of the change.

Christiansen said that the release, processed through Technicolor Rome, went off without any major hitches, but that DreamWorks wanted to see more studios adopt the change before committing to cyan soundtracks for all its releases.

Hollywood Reporter, March 22, 2004