Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Paycheck edge wear?

This is topic Paycheck edge wear? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005982

Posted by Paul Heynen (Member # 2294) on 03-22-2004, 10:21 AM:

Hi All,

Received a refurbished print of paycheck last week. As far as i can tell it was in good condition when we received it. I didn't make it up (although i plattered it). During the show i noticed a build up of green dust/splinters from the edge of the film. I could not find a problem with the threading up, and the gate was humming as usual. After the film finished i checked the gate ( black plastic or neoprene on a Kiniton sp 40 D) and appart from the green buildup i could find nothing wrong. The next 2 sessions yeilded the same result. Now the whole film is covered in this hail of black shards very cringe worthy!

So my question is WTF? It is the first time i have ever seen it although i have only worked in a bio box for 1 1 /2 years. Newbie i know. [Embarrassed]

Anyway i think this site is great just need a spare year or so to read all the posts.

P.S. (Will this question ever end!) What is the cause of the ugly yellow dots that i see every now and again on a print. No doubt it has been touched on already. As i have seen a member with a picture where they flash up. Our Tech who has been in the industry 40+ years can't even explain them?

Thanks and any help will be appreciated to stop this happening again.

Cheers Pauly!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-22-2004, 11:18 AM:

It's hard to say, exactly what's causing your shedding but I have some guesses.

When prints are new, sometimes little flakes/shreds come off the edges the first time or two they are run. If the place that ran the print before you had a problem with their projector the edges of the film could have gotten scuffed. Therefore, you inherrit THEIR problem. Assuming there are no malfunctions with YOUR machine, both of these problems are likely to go away after you run the print a few times.

Rule this theory out if:

1) It's a used print but the problem didn't occur till after you ran it a couple times.

2) The problem doesn't start to go away on its own (or gets worse) after the print is run a couple-three times.

You may have a problem with alignment in your projector. The gate, guide rollers, pad rollers and sprocket shoes are all suspect. A good way to rule this out is to run some other (expendable) film through the projector and observe if the problem occurs again. If it doesn't this theory is likely ruled out.

A third theory is in the film transport. What could be occurring is that the film is getting damaged at another location down the line but when it gets to the projector, the action of the intermittent/film loops is flinging the skivings all over the place. Platters, reels, film guidance rollers and similar equipment are all suspect. Film could be "jumping the track" somewhere along the line. It could be rubbing against the edge of a reel flange or across the surface of a platter or even across a stationary piece of equipment like a part of the platter tree. Also check the "fingers", rollers and keepers of the payout control. If film is rubbing against something that it shouldn't, especially something stationary, there's your possible problem. You can rule this out if the problem doesn't occur with other film.

It only takes one moron to misthread a film or one pass through a malfunctioning projector to scuff it up. The fallout could keep happening for a several days afterward. I suggest a thourough cleaning and close monitoring until you can determine where the damage occurred.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 03-22-2004, 01:36 PM:

In regards to the UGLY yellow dots, do a search on CAP Codes or as we like to call them, CRAP CODE.

The latter will probably yield a better answer, but the first will provide information in regards to what the original intent was.

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 03-22-2004, 01:56 PM:

Are you sure the yellow dots are not the reel changes. His tech has seen them for 40 years. I dont think crap code is that old.

Edit: Nevermind, his tech has been around 40+ years. Not seen it for 40+ years. Oops. Maybe I should have read it again before I posted.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-22-2004, 02:15 PM:

Just to clarify, the CAP code and the CRAP code are two different things. The CAP code was developed by Kodak and the CRAP code was, apparently, developed by and is used by Deluxe Laboratories.

Anyway, before you go tearing everything apart looking for a problem, run another print on the machine. It's likely you'll find it'll run fine. Rejuvenated prints commonly shed a little since the film is physically bigger after it goes through whatever process they use to rejuvenate it.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 03-23-2004, 01:40 PM:

Um....I did a search for CRAP code, and it looks to me like it came from people making fun of CAP code (yeah, I hate it too.) Are they really two different things, or are you joking?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-23-2004, 01:57 PM:

They are two different (yet related) things.

CAP code is the original and "Coded Anti-Piracy" is its official name. Almonst nobody noticed it over the last twenty years when it has been in use.

People here and elsewhere have been using the term "CRAP code" to describe a newer coding scheme currently in use by Deluxe Laboratories which uses much larger and more offensive-looking dots. The CRAP-code dots are almost impossible for anyone with eyes to miss.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 03-23-2004, 04:57 PM:

Wow, I learned something new. I've been aware of the existence of CAP code, and I always assumed that those offensive red or orange dots were it. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen them until very recently. I had no idea CAP was in use for so long.

So is there an official name for the CRAP code? Why even bother if CAP has been in use for so long and works?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-23-2004, 09:21 PM:

quote:
Wow, I learned something new.

We all knew this day would come! [Wink]

quote:
So is there an official name for the CRAP code? Why even bother if CAP has been in use for so long and works?

Coke and Pepsi, my friend. Why have one when the world will accept two?

And what -- I ask WHAT -- would the world be without sequels and remakes?

Posted by Paul Heynen (Member # 2294) on 03-24-2004, 08:44 AM:

G'day All,

After running another print i figure it must have been Paycheck that was in the wrong. I also realised that i have to learn a lot about what it is i'm doing (In the box)... [Confused]

I understand (now) that i haven't had the proper training. I love what i do and take pride in my work. (Best splices' in the place!) I'd love to train with someone who'll kick my butt for not doing things - not necessarily right but practically - properly.

I hope to learn a lot from everyone here so a big thank you in advance and a thank you for answering my queries so far!

Thanks Gentlemen and Gentlewomen.

Have a great day!

Pauly

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-29-2004, 03:20 PM:

The original CAP Code developed by Kodak in cooperation with the MPAA and FBI was first used on Disney's "Night Crossing" in 1982, and for hundreds of features in the last twenty years worldwide.

In the last few years, a variety of additional proprietary anti-piracy watermarking codes have been developed. At ShoWest, the participants in the anti-piracy seminars noted additional methods of watermarking and "cam-jam" (video camera jamming) are being developed for both film and digital cinema applications.