Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: video and/or 16mm capability

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-28-2004, 05:29 PM:

Random question, I know, but I'm curious.

Does your theatre have permanently installed 16mm and/or video projection capability? What type of equipment do you use? Is the picture and sound quality decent? Do you fill the 35mm screen or project a smaller image? For video, what formats can you play? Do you own the deck(s) or do you just own the projector and rent whatever deck you need when necessary? By "video," I'm not referring to the full-blown DLP setup, just regular NTSC/PAL or HD video.

How often does this equipment get used? Does it pay for itself?

My answer:

Of the three theatres where I work semi-regularly (two singles, one 6-plex), one of them (a single) has 16mm capability, but it's sort of a half-assed setup involving a MARC-300 B&H projector and a separate large-reel unit. I've never run it personally, but they apparently use it a couple of times per year. None of these venues has a permanently installed video system.

The best-equipped places seem to be colleges, which usually have (in addition to 35mm) 16mm and various video formats (mostly DVD, laserdisc, multi-standard VHS, and sometimes 3/4"; I don't know of any place that owns a deck for any of the broadcast formats (Beta SP, Digi-Beta, etc.).

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-29-2004, 02:04 AM:

"The best-equipped places seem to be colleges," I guess that'd be us (MIT).

Our primary booth (Century Cs) has an Eiki EX-6120, and it does project a slightly smaller image than the 35mm image, but gets used sufficiently infrequently that it's not a big deal. It also has an NTSC projector that projects on an auxilliary screen off-to-the-side of the main screen.

Our secondary booth (Bauer U4s) has Bauer Selekton 16mm attachments that slide in front of the U4s, so they're 35/16 projectors. They do fill the screen. Also video front-and-center with DVD and VHS.

We essentially never use video (once in a blue moon for a trailer), but of course these are multipurpose rooms and the video gets used heavily by other people.

--jhawk

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-29-2004, 02:25 AM:

Same here: our university cinema (which is a lecture theatre during the day) has 16/Super 16 capability with a Kinoton FP-18; plus an S-XGA video projector which can be fed by DVD, VHS/S-VHS, DVCAM, Mini DV, and a PC for Powerpoint and the like in lectures. We can bring in a Beta SP or Digibeta player from elsewhere in the institution should we need to. The 16mm and video picture is the same size as 35mm in Academy, though as it only has a 500w lamp, the 16mm picture obviously isn't anything like as bright as 35. You can set the DVD player so it'll output anamorphic pixels to the projector, thereby projecting an image from a widescreen DVD about the same size as 35mm in 1:1.85; but the definition is gruesome, to say the least. The total screen size is about 7 x 3 metres.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 03-29-2004, 02:25 AM:

The Prytania Theater in New Orleans apparently has a permanently installed video projection system of some type.

http://www.theprytania.com/main.html

It's a theater which is often rented for many New Orleans film festivals of new & independent stuff, which often comes on video. They apparently use it for other things, too: I was told that last Friday they ran Teddy at the Throttle (a silent) on video & had part of the Louisiana Philharmonic there providing accompaniment.

I know of several college auditoriums & a few PAC's that have really bad (often cheap) video projection systems. Their use is restricted to student showings of films just to say they're providing programming, & the same for the PAC's. A couple of the PAC's just bring over a video projector "from the college". Picture poor, attendance poor, PAC PR blurbs as "state-of-the-art digital projection" with a word that it won't look as good as what you're used to now at the movies "of course, because it's an old movie".

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 03-29-2004, 04:01 AM:

Here at Wollongong University, UniMovies, the on-campus film presentation club, has invested quite a lot in video facilities over recent years - there's not a lot of improvement possible on the 35mm side.
We've got a JVC DILA projector (SXGA) outputting 5000 lumens. We use an anamorphic lens on the projector and I feel that the brightness and contrast is sufficient to match our 35mm projectors (we recently updated that to Kineton FP-30E) - but only up to widescreen. We can screen from VHS, SuperVHS, Laserdisc, DVD, VCD and BetaSP as well as miniDV.
We use the projector to screen slides and powerpoint from Mac or PC, and show music videos prior to our 35mm features. If we were not a volunteer organisation I would say the video would not be in any way cost-effective. But we want to be able to support any form of presentation.
Our most recent video presentation was the local Short Film Festival, presented from miniDV. Our screen is 20' high and, although we can project video to full scope ratio, I think widescreen is the biggest picture where video is acceptable.
We'd like to get better resolution input (we can do HD TV). What's the opinion of film-techers of D-VHS as a video source?

Peter Castle
UniMovies
Uni of Wollongong

Posted by Jim Spohn (Member # 1547) on 03-29-2004, 09:09 AM:

At the Granada Theatre we use an RCA Arc-400 to show silent movies for the pipe-organ programs, fills the screen same as the 35s. The unit burns 6mm negative and 7mm positive carbons. ...Jim

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 03-29-2004, 11:07 AM:

Don't know the model of our projector off the top of my head, but the CWRU film society has a permanantly installed 16 projector. The manual's in Italian, if that helps. Vertically it fills the screen, and it has a turret with standard and anamorphic lenses. (Last anamorphic 16 print we showed was the original Solaris, which I thought was boring as heck, but that's another thread)

We also have a pair of portiable EIKIs we use when we the university decides they need to use the room for other purposes. Fortunately, that's extremely rare.

No permanantly installed video capability, but we can borrow a projector when we get a completely unrunnable print and have to go rent the DVD to show. (Which we then retroactively go and sort out with our distributor. We paid for the right to show the movie, after all.) It looks like garbage, though. Rocky Horror with a live cast and a DVD? Yuk.

Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 03-29-2004, 12:37 PM:

We don't own any video gear. It's needed once a year for a local fest, and we rent projector(s), DVC and DigiBeta decks as they require.

I have a 16mm Eiki model EX-1520 (xenon bulb), which I can put in any of our five auditoriums as needed, and fill the full screen height. It doesn't get used that frequently. The fest needs it once every couple of years, and I drag it out for the occasional odd midnight show.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 03-29-2004, 07:02 PM:

We've got an eastman theatre projector, theatre version of thw 275, we use for 16. cant remember the model off the top of my head. Has an ORC 1KW on the back of it. For video we use a Sanyo PLV-70 with a 2000 dollar lens to make the nearly 100' throw. aside from being a bit dimmer that our 35, it looks quite good.

Josh

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 03-29-2004, 08:09 PM:

Almost all Regal theatres have permanently intalled video projectors in every auditorium for preshow advertising, live satalite events, and content for buisiness auditorium rentals.

The video source is primarily from a computer playing higher-than-dvd quality MPEG, allthough any source with VGA, s-video, or component video out can also be used.

The video is projected using a Christie Road Runner L6 DLP projector, which is really an aftermarket Sanyo. We also use the lense attachment to achieve better throw. Typicly the video fills the entire screen, but not always. The color and video quality depends on how big the screen is. This projector works extreamly well on screens up to 30 feet wide, with excellent color. However beyond 30 feet, the image begins to get dim.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-29-2004, 08:31 PM:

Josh Jones wrote:

quote:
We've got an eastman theatre projector, theatre version of thw 275, we use for 16. cant remember the model off the top of my head.

Likely the EASTMAN Model 30 or Model 40, which had the takeup reel flat against the lower front panel?:

http://www.film-center.com/e40.html

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-29-2004, 09:38 PM:

The Christie RoadRunner L6 is a 3-LCD projector, not DLP. 5200 lumens with both bulbs on, 2600 on half power. 1024 x 768. Projector Central says Christie makes it; they usually say if the same box is offered by more than one vendor. Perhaps Sanyo makes the optical engine? MSRP is about $19K. Street price about $11K.

Projector Central's Summary

Christie Road Runner L6 Page

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 03-29-2004, 10:14 PM:

Sanyo is building the Roadrunner.....

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-29-2004, 10:27 PM:

Small world...Sanyo is one of Kodak's partners in commercializing Organic Light Emitting Diode (OLED) displays:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/sanyoFlat.jhtml

quote:
Eastman Kodak Company and Sanyo Electric Co. unveiled this week a prototype fifteen-inch flat-panel display, the next generation of full-color displays based on Kodak's patented organic light-emitting diode (OLED) technology.

The two companies are showing the prototype at the CEATEC JAPAN trade show. The active-matrix display features full-color, 1280 x 720 (HDTV) resolution; a display area of 326.4 x 183.6 mm; and a brightness that rivals the best active-matrix LCD monitors on the market today.

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/LS633.jhtml

quote:
OLED Technology

OLED displays comprise self-luminous pixels, requiring no backlights used in liquid crystal displays (LCDs). So they offer design and performance advantages, including clearer images, crisper video, and thinner designs in digital cameras, mobile phones, PDAs and other devices. Additional benefits over conventional technologies include higher contrast for superb readability in most lighting conditions, faster response time to support streaming video, and industry-leading (165 degree) viewing angle for superior ergonomics. In addition to the joint manufacturing venture for AM OLED panels with Sanyo, Kodak licenses OLED technology to more than one dozen display and device manufacturers worldwide.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 03-29-2004, 10:43 PM:

Yes, your right. 3 LCD. I just assumed DLP because it doesnt have the screen door effect I associate with LCD projectors. However, I can assure you Sanyo makes it. They even had one on display in the Sanyo booth at ShoWest, albiet with a Sanyo logo in place of a Christie one.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-07-2004, 09:02 AM:

In the Brooklyn Museum we use an Eastman 25B with modified take-up and supply arms that were re-machined and with stronger motors installed in them to accept 6000ft long-play reels. A Xetron 1600w lamphouse replaced the original Strong carbon arc lamphouse. The 35mm is a change-over system via Simplex P35 heads and Xetron 2000w lamphouse. Dolby SR via a CP55; no digital formats -- red exciter/scanners sitting on the shelf waiting for either Kelmar to supply us with IR arrays or for the first cyan track print to come in. Ceiling "surrounds."

They recently installed a Eiki LC-XT3 3 bulb LCD video projector that can display XGA and produces a whopping 10,000 lumens, making it as bright as the 35mm. 16mm, 35mm and video have common height, although the 16mm does have to crop top and bottom slightly. The 16mm does not have anamorphic capability nor do we see any need for it as we have come by so few situations where we had to play any anamorphic films -- if it is an anamorphic film, that means that 99% of the time it was released in 35mm and we will try to get the 35mm print. 16mm is not as bright as the 35mm but still presents a very viewable picture. The video image nearly matches the 35mm in brightness.

When playing anamorphic DVDs, the Eiki leaves a slight band on top and bottom, but that's because the vendor supplied the wrong $3000 zoom lens and they are working out the legal battle to get him to supply the correct one. The Eiki will accept any format. Right now in the rack is a Laserdisc, DVD, a SVHS-NTSC and a PAL, U-Matic and a DigiBeta and a PC. They have a switcher with rack jacks to accept other piece of equipment someone might wheel in.

The Eiki costs upwards of $23,000 and I do not know how they expect to amortize this....hopefully not by firing me, although now that they realize they can "run movies" on the Eiki, all of a sudden there seems to be less urgency in getting 35mm prints. Obstensibly the video projector was installed to be used, as others have said, for independent "films" and festivals that come in and rent the museum's theatre to screen their programs, now ladened with video titles.

In our Brooklyn Center Cinema/part of Brooklyn Center for the Performing Arts (at Brooklyn College), in our 2500 seat Whitman Theatre, we have 35mm Simplex XL change-over/carbon arc and again, an Eastman 16mm modified to accept 6000ft long play reels. We cannot do 16mm anamorphic because of the screen size, 40 width, which simply wouldn't be a bright enough picture and I either do common height or I don't do it at all. No video from the booth. Occasionally we run video via rear screen by flying out the main screen and its curtain and then dropping down a rear screen. The projector which is borrowed from the college is mounted on a scaffold back stage. They bring over an number of modelsl....I have no idea what they've used, other than I know they were LCDs.

Rear projection is just what the name implies....an ass-backwards concept. The screens' grain structure melds with the picture and the image is nothing but a big hot spot. They use this for college presentations and lectures and the like....I never use it as part of any Brooklyn Center Cinema presentation. Digital sound is DTS.

In the Prospect Park Celebrate Brooklyn venue, it's just 35mm change-over via Century SAWs backed up by ORC 4000w-ers, to a 50ft wide screen. No digital; no 16mm; no bloody video!