Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Intermissions...

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Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-30-2004, 06:25 PM:

I'm considering running intermissions at our theater. Do you think it would be easier to program an intermission through automation with a platter, or to use reel-to-reel with 6,000 foot reels... rewinding them in between films?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-30-2004, 06:39 PM:

No intermissions. Few movies have a designated (or good) place to put one in and people expect for the film to run non-stop. Most all film companies will prohibit it as well. You don't really have a choice here.

If you are insistent to run reel to reel, you will have to buy two of everything and do changeovers. While there is nothing wrong with this, you WILL be spending a LOT more money just to get your theater running and the customers don't care how you make their film run, just so long as you do...without interruption and without film damage.

Once you start running movies over 3 hours long, if the studio wants or is willing to permit an intermission, there will be a designated place for it. Regardless, platters are still easier.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-30-2004, 06:50 PM:

Agreed to everything Brad said about adding intermissions to films which are intended to be shown without them. Audiences won't be happy and film distributors will hate you.

Intermissions _between_ different films are OK, however, if you run double-features. In this case, the film transport system doesn't really make any difference.

I feel pretty strongly that a single-screen house should have two projectors (ideally with 6000' capability) for redundancy and short runs/festivals/etc., even if there is a platter for extended runs as well. You don't want to lose an entire night's worth of shows because you stripped a gear in your one and only projector. With 6000' reels, you can run the entire show on one machine with one short intermission (during which someone can apologize to the audience and offer passes). This isn't ideal, but it's far better than turning away your customers at the door.

Do you really need/want automation in a single-screen house? The high-end stuff (CA-21, etc.) is nice, but expensive, and the low-end stuff doesn't really seem to offer much benefit if you have a full-time operator (which you should).

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-30-2004, 07:14 PM:

You might take a look at your master licences before making a decision like this.

As far as I know, all studios clearly obligate you to run their pictures without interruption or modification of any kind. There's even some occasional debate whether "attached" trailers constitute part of what's expected to be run, but that's another issue.

Aside from alienating your customers, many of whom would see this as a mid-show marketing attempt, stopping a picture for an intermission would clearly be a violation of your contract. That could get you taken off-service as the distributors learn of this.

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-30-2004, 07:24 PM:

Hmmm, thanks for the replies. I was basing the intermission model after a small arthouse theater in the town where I went to college. They had intermissions in every single film... I don't know how they did it, but they did. Patrons seemed to enjoy it - they saw it as a time to get up, stretch, use the restroom, and (most importantly) refill their beer / wine / soda / popcorn / etc.. Although I'd like to have them, I'd obey the rules set forth by a distribution contract.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-30-2004, 10:59 PM:

I just got a new copy of our contract from New Line, and it specifically states NO INTERMISSIONS -- even has a separate subparagraph on the subject.

I think NATO should start working on one of their "resolutions" that all films over 150 minutes should have an intermission built in. This would be more worthwhile, and better for theatres, than the failed "trailer volume" initative that they keep beating to death.

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 03-30-2004, 11:35 PM:

For our free summer kids film festival, we run intermissions. We place them between two reels close to the middle of a film, for instance after the 3rd reel of a 6 reel movie. In this environment, it is a good because it allows kids to stretch and get the "wiggles" out. In prior years, when we didnt have the intermission, I would walk in to find kids litterally hanging from the curtains.

However, in most cases, I have to agree with what everyone else here has said. Even durring our kids festival, the flow of the movie is abruptly haulted by a flashy intermission logo with horible graphics and sound, sometimes mid-sceene.

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-31-2004, 08:57 AM:

Do you think the college-town theater just ignored the "intermission" clause in their contracts? I can't figure how else they could get around that.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-31-2004, 10:59 AM:

quote:

Mike Blakesley: ...all films over 150 minutes should have an intermission...

Agreed!

When one of our concerts, shows or stage presentations are planned to go longer than 90 minutes we usually automatically put in an intermission. Our customers just expect it.

When it comes to movies, we will play them all the way through as much as we possibly can. We've got the smaller platter decks because of limited space in the booth. If the film is too big to safely fit on one deck I'll automatically break the film. We've only had that happen one time. There is one time when I probably should have but didn't. (It was a squeaker!)

We have had a couple of movies with built-in intermission. Sound of Music comes to mind. We will also be playing Lawrence of Arabia in the next few weeks. Those are no-brainers.

I say that you should try to play the movie all the way through as much as you possibly can. IF your system can only play short reels or has small decks then it's OK to put in an intermission for technical reasons. If you are in a non-theatrical (college, non-profit, etc.) venue then the heat is off a little bit. If your customers want intermissions, certainly go ahead but, still, try to do it all in one shot if you can.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-31-2004, 12:30 PM:

quote:
IF your system can only play short reels or has small decks then it's OK to put in an intermission for technical reasons. If you are in a non-theatrical (college, non-profit, etc.) venue then the heat is off a little bit.

Nothing in a master license makes this "OK". Matter of fact, theatrical master licenses give the studios the right to evaluate our booths in person... ostensibly for the purpose of making sure "technical reasons" won't interfere with our ability to show their pictures as intended. The studios can, and have used one theatre's capabilities over another's as reason for placing a title when both theatres want it.

Non-theatrical rentals may be another thing. If there's no contractual terms to the contrary, I guess you could do pretty much whatever.

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-31-2004, 01:24 PM:

What if you happen to be the only theater in town showing that particular film? Then the scenario of "who gets the film" wouldn't play in. Is this more a matter of don't ask, don't tell?

**I'm not trying to be an a-hole, I just want to make sure I get all the angles.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-31-2004, 01:40 PM:

Well, "don't ask, don't tell" only works if you "don't get caught" [Wink]

If you're running on the break, the studios aren't going to let you put in an intermission. If you ask them about it, they'll certainly know you're thinking about something you've already agreed in writing not to do.

You have to make your own decision. In an isolated area, you might make a case that you're not big enough to get the studios' attention, and that the chances they'll care enough to send someone out to your little piece of the world is remote. On the other hand, pissed-off customers do have the ability to reach the right ears, if you get them stirred up. I had one case where an old splice oozed and pulled two layers of film into the platter brain, causing a wrap & jam. We cut the show before it caused any damage. Two weeks later, I got a call from Disney, asking about the situation. A customer had emailed them, accusing us of cutting the credits so we could shoo them out early. [Roll Eyes]

So...... like speeding where you don't think the cops are likely to be... I suppose you can make your own choices about how literal you get with your studio contracts. However, you probably shouldn't look for too much encouragement in places like this... lurkers & all.

One other thing: There are precious few suppliers in our business. Like them or not, you can't afford to alienate very many of them before you find yourself with little decent material to run. These companies have longer memories than elephants and are mighty slow to forgive, once you've befouled them.

Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-31-2004, 01:58 PM:

Thanks for your replies, Jack. I doubt we'll be running intermissions, I just wanted to get as much information about it as possible. You've been very informative. Thanks!

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-31-2004, 03:46 PM:

Agreed generally about the undesirability of putting an intermission in where the film wasn't scripted to include one. But occasionally you get a situation where there's no choice. I once ran Titanic at a university show which consisted of a projection box rather smaller than the average broom cupboard, containing a GK-37 and a Westrex tower. Said tower would not hold the complete film, full stop. The spool capacity was officially 12,000 feet of acetate. Even allowing for acetate being thicker than the polyester of that print, the 16k feet-ish that film ran would have overlapped the spools by a long way, so we had to stop in the middle. Luckily, the end of one of the reels was a long, static close-up of someone's face just after the ship hit the iceberg, so I faded the stage spots up and closed the tabs in such a way as to not make it look too brutal.

But I couldn't help thinking that a 195-minute film which dosen't really allow for an intermission is not exactly realistic. The way this is dealt with in Seven Samurai gets this issue right, IMHO: after the second big raid scene there is a fade to black, and then the following scene - set days later - fades up. It doesn't really affect the story if 5 seconds or 15 minutes elapses in between, which gives the exhibitor total flexibility as to whether to include an intermission in the programme or not. The pressures of multiplex scheduling notwithstanding, any film-maker contemplating a 150-minute plus production should really try and script in a convenient break point, IMHO.

Posted by Daniel Alt (Member # 2303) on 03-31-2004, 04:32 PM:

quote:
But I couldn't help thinking that a 195-minute film which dosen't really allow for an intermission is not exactly realistic. The way this is dealt with in Seven Samurai gets this issue right, IMHO: after the second big raid scene there is a fade to black, and then the following scene - set days later - fades up.

Seven Samurai is also supposed to have 4 minutes or so of walk in music at the start of the second half. When we ran it earlier this year, we discovered that it had been removed. (There was a handwritten note on the reel bemoaning the fact) Is this a common occurance for movies that are supposed to have music attached to the intermission?

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 03-31-2004, 05:43 PM:

Regarding Jack Ondracek's post about an accidental brain suck just before the closing credits:

I had something very similar happen to me recently, although it was caused by receiving a "re-furbished" print late and not having enough projection staff to rehearse the show. The film was "Under The Tuscan Sun" (also distributed by BVI).

When the automation stopped the show (platters, tension device) I was at the other end of the building doing a little electrical work. So by the time I had got back to the booth and sorted it out e.t.c. some of the customers had wandered off, some had come out in to the foyer to complain (and in doing so, missed the end which I ran).

After explaining to my manager what had happened and why (and ordering a replacement reel) there was no fallout (investigation, disclipinary action e.t.c.).

In light of Jack Ondracek's post, I'm now half expecting BVI (UK) to be contacting either my manager, or the manager of the entire cinema chain at head office.

We'll see if BVI want to make an issue of it.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-07-2004, 07:42 AM:

quote:
Seven Samurai is also supposed to have 4 minutes or so of walk in music at the start of the second half. When we ran it earlier this year, we discovered that it had been removed. (There was a handwritten note on the reel bemoaning the fact) Is this a common occurrence for movies that are supposed to have music attached to the intermission?

Unfortunately Daniel, this is a common occurrence on older titles. You could ask for another print, but usually in art houses and non-theatrical situations where a print is being run only once or even just a few times, you can rarely get a better print shipped in time for your playdate -- if, indeed, there is a complete roadshow print available.

As for putting in an intermission, well, for all the hootin and hollerin about the integrity of the filmmaker's artistic vision and the distributor's master contracts, none of this matters when the huge foreign markets are concerned. It seems not to matter a bit to the distributors that intermissions are put into films that play the thousands of Indian cinemas. Could it be because that market is a massive income generating machine? Where money is concerned, what's a nice 45 min intermission between friends? Of course over there, it is part of the culture and the audiences would riot if they didn't get their intermission in which they go out to have lunch. But then again, it sounds like your audiences were accustomed to an intermission and would not complain about it.

As for the holier-than-thou Master Contract....you are not a first run or even a subrun house. In all but the first run major markets where the studio and everyone involved with the film are putting their best face forward, they are very much sensitive to anything that will put egg on it. But once you get into the hinterlands and the sub and underbelly runs off the break, like all things Hollywood, they prostitute themselves for anything that brings in a buck. I have seen blockbuster pictures -- the Academy Award winning top films of the year....the studio's pride and joy of the moment, play in theatres that I wouldn't let a dog go into. Even the self-proclaimed we're-better-than-everyone-else Disney/BuenaVista booked BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, one of their biggest, most acclaimed titles to come along in many a year, into some of the filthiest dives with the worst presentation imaginable. So all the chest-beating that studios do is a lot more for show -- like Lucas saying he would never let STAR WARS I or II play in Drive-Ins because they didn't meet his high standards, and then after all the press coverage died down, it play in any DI that wanted it. High standards my ass --it's grosses that rule the day.

Is that cyncial enough for ya? I wish I were exaggerating, but sadly, I don't think I am. If I were, you would have a studio complaining that you DIDN'T run the overture or entr'acte music and they would rush you a print that has everything the filmmaker originally intended the audience to see and hear....they would be concerned that your showing be "rue to the filmmaker's vision." Try telling that to the distributor's booker. Maybe the Master Contract should include in that section that says the exhibitor must play the film in its entirety without cutting anything out of it, an additional paragraph saying that it's the distributor's responsibility to supply an ENTIRE print that has nothing cut out of it!

I need a cup of coffee.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 04-07-2004, 12:31 PM:

quote:
...it's the distributor's responsibility to supply an ENTIRE print that has nothing cut out of it!

Absolutely agreed. Why should we pay huge rental fees for damaged prints? If there are no good prints, then at the very least a discount is in order. There are, indeed, occasions when I think the distributor should be paying us for in effect "restoring" the film.

So what is the motive for insisting on "no intermissions"? Surely it could not be artistic integrity on the part of the studios... is it merely a ploy to pack in as many shows as possible?

I have also found that music (overtures, intermissions, entr'actes, exit musics) is the first to go on prints. Threaders can't figure out what all the "black film" is for, so it ends up in the trash, or, if you're lucky, spliced into a completely different part of the print.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 04-07-2004, 01:21 PM:

IMHO, Studios should print an "Overture, Intermission, etc" tag or title card for the duration of the music for titles that they reprint. That way, Real theaters with curtains and a sense of showmanship can just close the dowser, while threadjocky multiplexes would realize that it's actually a part of the show and it would have less of a chance being removed.

I thought for sure they would add the title cards much like on the VHS/DVD of Gone With The Wind for the re-release in 1998. We ran it with everything intact and the IB prints looked fantastic despite the sheading. I wonder how many of those still exist?

=TMP=

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 04-08-2004, 01:44 AM:

hmm, our ib gwtw looked pretty shitty. lots of color fringing. should have been printed academy as well, though i don't think that would've helped the fringing much.

carl

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-08-2004, 10:30 AM:

The thing about overtures is that, back in the day, people understood what they were all about. In fact, they expected to see such things.

Nowadays, most people hardly know what an overture IS, let alone what it means.

It's no wonder people cut them off. Their clue meter is reading ZERO!

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 04-08-2004, 11:37 AM:

quote:
So what is the motive for insisting on "no intermissions"? Surely it could not be artistic integrity on the part of the studios... is it merely a ploy to pack in as many shows as possible?

I wouldn't go so far as to say I actually know the answer to this. [Big Grin]

...and having said that, I'll be happy to speculate!

It may very well have been "artistic integrity" when that rule was written... or something like it. If the "no modification rule" was not in the contract, it would be left to the theatre to decide where to put an intermission... or even how many to put in there. In the worst case, you'd never know what kind of presentation you'd get from one theatre to another. Ok... maybe that's true now, but you could have every theatre chopping prints up to meet their own artistic or marketing goals... and we certainly can't have that now, can we? [Razz]

The problem is that you're smart... I'm smart... but there are a lot of Redifers out there, so there goes the neighborhood! [beer]

quote:
...As for the holier-than-thou Master Contract....

Now, Frank... you're cynicism is showing!

You are, no doubt, correct about how, or if the studios pay any attention to what the hinterland hardtops do with their prints. However, I wouldn't want my name to be publicly attached to a suggestion that any of those folks violate their legally binding contracts with their vendors... life around here is challenging enough as it is!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-08-2004, 11:51 AM:

many theatres up here and I beleive in the UK that have Cinemecanica towers always have an intermission and I know in the past up here at least they could not legaly be refused a print

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 04-08-2004, 12:16 PM:

quote:
Studios should print an "Overture, Intermission, etc" tag or title card for the duration of the music for titles that they reprint

Excellent idea, Thomas. That would give theatres without curtains something to show during the music, and it would clue in the film jockeys and the (sometimes equally clueless) audience. (When we ran "2001", at least one patron was heard to remark at the intermission, "Oh, they must only have one projector.")

However, it won't stop the determined. I believe "GWTW" does have an intermission tag, but it was cut out on the print we ran. The music was still intact, though. [Confused]