Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Can I find documentation on how to replace our igniter? Safety tips?

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Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 03-31-2004, 01:29 PM:

An igniter is not working properly on one of our projectors (Super Highlight II). We have an extra one lying around, however there is no documentation on the replacement procedure. I've looked at Strong's website as well as this one, and have also flipped through the entire lamphouse instruction manual. The closest detail I can get with the igniter PCB is the white box that encases it.

So I'm assuming all you do is disconnect the leads (shunts?) from the two posts protruding from the white box, and then pull the box out, then once in the box the rest should be self-explanatory? The other safety note I observed was to discharge the capacitors across the spark gap with an insulated screwdriver. And sorry for yet another retarded question but, does it matter which end of the capacitor I touch it to (is it polarized?)

Any help on this matter would be much appreciated! Thanks!

-Jackson

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-31-2004, 02:48 PM:

Assuming that you are replacing the unit with one that is exactly the same:

You can take the wires off the original igniter, one at at time, then mark the wires and the terminals with pieces of tape. For instance, put a piece of tape on your first wire marked, "W-1". Put a piece of tape on its terminal marked, "T-1". Repeat the process... "W-2", "T-2", "W-3, "T-3", etc. until you have all the terminals and wires marked.

Next, you remove the old igniter and transfer the tapes with the "T-numbers" to the new one. Be sure to get the tapes onto the matching terminals! Then install the new one in the reverse order you took the old one out. Match up your "T-numbers" with your "W-numbers" and put the wires on the correct terminals. Make sure everything's tightened properly. Double check your wiring. Say a little prayer. Kick the tire. Light the fire. You should be good to go!

I don't suppose I have to remind you to turn off all the circuit breakers to the lamphouse, do I? [Wink]

Don't forget that there may be more than one breaker. (I got nailed on that once!)

Do you know where the capacitors are in the rectifier? (Or even IF there are capacitors.) If so, take a screwdriver with an insulated handle and short them out. They'll go, "SNAP!!", and sparks will fly but it will save you from a painful (and potentially dangerous) shock. (I got bit by one of those, too! Not fun! Take it from me! [Wink]

)

Other than that, just work slowly and carefully. Use your common sense. It's not a hard job. Once you've done it a couple-few times, you can probably do it in, say, 30 minutes or less.

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 03-31-2004, 03:27 PM:

Randy:
I would assume we're using the same igniters that come with the Super Highlights (part no. 39862). A tech came down here a while back and instead of replacing the igniter he actually cut one of the capacitors off the board. Of course, they're are 5 maybe 6 large orange toroidal capacitors on the board, so I'd have no clue which one to remove.

The capacitors in the rectifier: are you talking about the two huge (1 farad?) ones at the base of the console? I was talking about shorting the capacitors on the PCB that I was replacing, but I'll short those too I guess!

And thank you for the help!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-31-2004, 05:38 PM:

Just so you are aware that these ignitors are repairable..... On the older ignitors that are 7 to 10 years old its usually the AC to high voltage xformer that fails. The original lder xformer is no longer available as the company went out of buisness but a transformer fomr an IGA-8 Christie ignitir is readily adaptable to the Strong unit. Just did one yesterday.

Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 03-31-2004, 08:10 PM:

Jackson has the new Strong D.C. pulse igniter. Removal is fairly straight forward (if you know which end of a screwdriver to hold [Wink]

As to which capacitors to remove...http://www.strong-cinema.com/downloads/bulletins/service_bulletins/SB-0024.pdf

Don't cut them out "just because" I've found some instances where doing so makes it inoperative.
Take it from me, those caps store a charge. Short them out with a jumper lead before playing with the board.
As well, it's a good idea to short the main D.C. from the rectifier with a screwdriver to discharge its capacitors. There's nothing worde than getting a lift when you're in such close proximity to an exposed xenon bulb. And, of course, WEAR A MASK.

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 04-01-2004, 01:26 AM:

Excellent. Thanks very much for the help all of you!

I'll make sure I'm standing in a bucket of water while I do all of this too - y'know...for luck.

-Jackson

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-01-2004, 02:47 PM:

There's only 3 wires on the impulse ignitor unit; the 2 DC cables and a wire that runs to the + connection post by the front of the mirror. Don't remove the 3rd wire that goes directly to the post on the ignitor. The + terminal bolt requires a 9/16 wrench and the ignitor wire is under both nuts and all the washers, on a big lug that generally gets distorted by tightening and is a prick to get off. The actual brass bolt sticking up should be stuck in the insulator so you don't have to worry about losing it when taking the bottom nut off.
Once removed, open the white case and you see the circuit board. Disconnecting and removing it is pretty easy. The "discharging" required is for this board. It holds a highish voltage charge, and it will give you a good jolt if you don't discharge it before handling! You can see the spark gap, just put a wire across the ends before removing the board. It will spark nicely if the unit has been powered recently.

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 04-04-2004, 12:42 PM:

Great news! The replacement was a triumphant success. Bad news, it didn't fix the problem. Er, so I guess that's not really a triumphant success.

Before you say, "You idiot," I'd just like to explain that the information I was given by my manager beforehand was what led me to changing the igniter PCB. He told me that, "There are plenty of good hours left on that bulb, so the bulb's fine. It's not the bulb. Trust me."

Well, now I happen to think it's the bulb, because the igniter is pulsing at about 2 pulses a second. The open circuit voltage rises to a stable 150 V DC (which I know is bad). After about 5 or 6 minutes the bulb finally strikes with a good light level.

The board I took out /did/ happen to have two of the capacitors snapped off. The new one has all five (or is it six?) attatched to it. Also there were traces of corrosion around the solder joints on the spark gap, but I figure that's normal wear n' tear.

Pending a bulb swap-out, and if it turns out NOT to be the bulb, what then do I need to do about this problem?

Thanks again for all of your highly informative help. I couldn't have done it without your support!

Posted by Marc Jones (Member # 29) on 04-05-2004, 08:26 PM:

Next step if you haven't done so yet check connections from recitifier to bulb.
Good luck

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 04-06-2004, 01:07 AM:

This problem is on one of our projectors that has a "buzz." The rectifier's transformers actually vibrate loud enough that you can't hear yourself think. A tech dampened the vibration on one of our units a while back, although didn't manage to entirely eliminate the problem.

I wonder then, if these vibrations have loosened those connections, and if so, what measures can be taken to dampen these buzzing machines?

Sorry for all the questions by the way.
-Jackson

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-06-2004, 03:36 PM:

Depends on the kind of rectifier and the transformer that it has. Generally speaking, it's because the layers of metal in the transformer are delaminating or because parts of the transformer are loose and vibrate. Sometimes, with Irem's for instance, there are bolts that can be tightened up to keep the parts from vibrating. Other times, there is a way to drive a wooden or brass shim into the transformer to tighten the parts. Still other times, the whole transformer will have to be taken out and dipped in shellac to stop it vibrating. Even after all that, some transformers STILL insist on vibrating.

If customers can hear it in the auditorium, it really ought to be fixed.

You have Strong rectifiers? I don't know how to stop them vibrating except to look inside for loose parts of the frame that can be tightened. I'm sure others will come along with better ideas in a short time. [Smile]

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 04-07-2004, 01:53 AM:

I think the tech that came down did the "wedge" thing with a small peice of wood. I just didn't catch where he wedged it. He also claimed that the transformers' vibrations were a shipping defect; that they got knocked around or something. Alas, thankfully no-one can hear anything in the auditorium. The barrier between the projector and the auditorium is almost sound-proof it seems.

I doubt the transformer is vibrating screws loose; we've had the problem since the theater opened. That is definatly one area of the projector I DON'T like to putz around in...at least until I've learned about three phase power in school.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-07-2004, 11:11 AM:

Three phase is your FRIEND!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-07-2004, 11:36 AM:

As long as it doesn't go through your body! [Eek!]

Just remember, it's CURRENT that kills. Under the right conditions, even a few volts could let a fatal level of current go through the body:

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/JackHsu.shtml

quote:
A common misconception is that larger voltages are more dangerous than smaller ones. However, this is not quite true. The danger to living things comes not from the potential difference, but rather the current flowing between two points. The reason that people may believe this can be explained by the equation V = IR. Since V is directly proportional to I, an increase in voltage can mean an increase in current, if resistance (R) is kept constant.

The amount of damage done by the electric shock depends not only on the magnitude of the current, but it also on which portions of the body that the electric current is flowing through. The reason for this is that different parts of the body have difference resistances, which can lead to an increase in current, evidenced by the formula V = IR.

An interesting fact to note is that it takes less alternating current (AC) to do the same damage as direct current (DC). AC will cause muscles to contract, and if the current were high enough, one would not be able to let go of whatever is causing the current coursing through the body. The cut-off value for this is known as the "let-go current". For women, it is typically 5 to 7 milliamperes, and for men, typically 7 to 9 milliamperes. This is dependent on the muscle mass of the individual.

In general, current that is fatal to humans ranges from 0.06 A to 0.07 A, depending on the person and the type of current.

http://www.t2.unh.edu/spring99/pg4.html

quote:
Current Values through Body Trunk in Milliamperes (ma)
Effect on Average Human Body

1 ma or less No sensation
1-8 milliamperes Sensation of shock. Person can let go.
8-15 milliamperes Painful shock. Person can let go at will, if muscle control not lost.
15 to 20 milliamperes Painful shock. Muscle control to adjacent muscles lost.
20-50 milliamperes Painful. Severe muscular contractions. Breathing is difficult.
50-100 milliamperes Probable Death
Greater than 100ma Death

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-07-2004, 12:53 PM:

So, my friends, the 600 amp disconnect and the 225 KVA transformer would probably be enough to knock an elephant on its ass!

OK. Silliness aside. Yes! Treat all power connections with respect! However, people who fear electricity too much are, in my opinion, just as vulnerable as people who don't respect it. Idiots who don't understand the dangers are bound to do something stupid and kill themselves or others. Scaredy-cats spend more time worrying about getting hurt and not doing the job safely. Neither of these kinds of people should be allowed to work with electricity, except to press the "ON" switch at the outside of the console.

I'm standing in front of the disconnect handle in that picture so you can't see that it is open and the handle is locked out. As most of us know, these boxes have interlocking covers that can't be opened until the handle is in the off position and the handle can't be put into the on position until the cover is closed.

For the most part, as long as you don't touch anything above the red contactors or reach behind that plastic shield you're safe. Believe me! As silly as the intent of that picture was, I did NOT take chances! All the power was turned off before that cover was opened!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-07-2004, 01:20 PM:

I recently bought a 5500 watt emergency generator. After finishing installation of the 10 circuit "EmerGen" control box to my house's main panel, I invited my neighbor over to see how it was done. While I was pointing to the wiring I had done in the main panel (my hand was a foot away from anything "live"), he recoiled in fear that I would electrocute myself. [Eek!]

I "fire up" the generator once a month and run the entire house (or at least the 10 circuits) on it for an hour or so, just to be ready for the next prolonged power outage. Our worst was during the "great Rochester ice storm" of March 1991, when we were without power for over a week. Last April, we had a three day outage.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/forprint/0406story19_news.shtml

quote:
'91 ice storm was far worse
Patrick Flanigan and Cory Ireland
Democrat and Chronicle

(April 6, 2003) — The difference between the ice storms of 1991 and 2003 could be summed up as the difference between a tree limb and a trunk.

If there’s one thing that people who lived through the ice storm 12 years ago remember, it’s the number of fallen trees that took out whole swaths of the Rochester area’s power grid and eventually prompted the federal government to label 12 counties disaster areas.

While no two weather events can be fully compared until they’re over, this year’s storm so far has featured mostly fallen tree limbs and scattered power outages.

“I had to cut a tree down to get out of my driveway to get to work (in 1991),” said Rochester Police Capt. Fred Bell.

“Just about everybody was without power. This is nothing like that.”

The great ice storm of 1991 started about 6 p.m. on March 3 as freezing rain.

A total of up to 1.5 inches of ice accumulated on trees and power lines, bringing the city to a near halt for several days. Some 200,000 Rochester Gas and Electric Corp. customers were without power for at least several days.

“We didn’t have power at my house for 14 days,” Bell said. “The first night we had a fire in the fireplace and it was romantic. But that got old and we spent the rest of the time in a hotel.”

The National Weather Service in Buffalo estimates this year’s storm brought ice accumulations that were þ to 1 inch thick.

Cindy Flannigan of Perinton woke up at 2 a.m. Friday as limbs from iced-over trees snapped and fell.

The same sounds awakened memories of 1991’s storm, which destroyed an estimated 120,000 trees.

Tree damage this time around “is significant” -- but “definitely not in any way” the same as 1991, said city of Rochester forester Ian Nadar.

“But I’m keeping my fingers crossed.”

In 1991, after 19 straight hours of freezing rain, an average 50-foot fir took on an extra 50 tons in weight.

On Friday, full city crews were out by 3 a.m., clearing crashed branches from city-owned street trees, said Nadar. Calls of downed branches averaged about 10 an hour. Silver maples -- weak-wooded and no longer planted by the city -- fared the worst.

There are 60,000 trees in Rochester’s city-owned urban forest. That’s back up to pre-1991 levels.

RG&E -- which in 1991 lost 3,000 miles of power line -- has also stepped up its right-of-way maintenance. In 1991, the company trimmed 195 miles of trees overhanging utility lines. These days, crews trim 1,700 miles or more a year.

During the 1991 storm, police officers ran 12-hour shifts to respond to all the calls for service, Bell said.

This year’s storm has generated an increase in motor vehicle accidents on par with any other winter storm, he said.

Deputy Fire Chief Bob King remembers crews of firefighters running from house to house, responding to one power outage call after another. Firefighters had to cut trees out of the way to get down some streets, he said.

This year’s calls have been more sporadic, with crews mostly dealing with wires pulled away from individual houses rather than primary power lines felled by downed trees.

“We’re not seeing the type of magnitude that we had in ‘91,” King said.

John Merklinger, director of Monroe County’s Emergency Communication Department, said this year’s storm might not reach 1991 levels. But it still has been enough to keep dispatchers and telecommunicators in the 911 center busy.

“We really got crushed during the night,” Merklinger said. The 911 center took about 3,000 calls between midnight and 3 a.m. Friday, a time when the center typically logs about 400 emergency calls.

By midnight Friday, Merklinger predicted the center would handle about 10,000 to 12,000 calls.

A busy summer night would bring about 4,100 calls to the center, he said.

Still, 1991 was busier. The center handled 24,000 calls during that storm, he said.

“The biggest difference seems to be the weight of the ice,” Merklinger said.

“The trees don’t look to be as bent over as they did in 1991.”

Posted by Jackson Gilman (Member # 2142) on 04-07-2004, 07:09 PM:

One other important thing to note, for anyone else who reads this (probably everyone knows it, but if I save a life I'll uh...no...everyone probably knows it.) is that 100 mA can be lethal particularly when it goes through the chest cavity (heart). Therefore, when working with high voltage equipment, sometimes using just one hand to get preliminary things out of the way is not a bad idea (ie, shorting capacitors etc...) especially if you have omega-shakey hands like me. That way, if hopefully you're not grounded, any shock incurred would hurt like hell, but there's less of a chance of it killing you.

I love electricity! [Big Grin]

It's people I'm not so comfortable with.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-07-2004, 07:22 PM:

<Maxwell Smart Voice>

Ah, Yes! The old "One Hand in the Pocket Trick"!

</Maxwell Smart Voice>

A time-tested, mother-approved safety measure! [Smile]