This is topic Whats best way to mount this surround spkr bracket to the wall? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 04-21-2004, 05:33 PM:
 
Wall is made up of two layers of 5/8" drywall on metal studs with 1/2" or better sound board between drywall and studs.

I will be mounting JBL surrounds with JBL bracket model 2502 brackets. PDF of bracket here.
There is no internal blocking in the wall to screw into. Metal stud is only thing that a screw can be ran into.

The wall also has "Sound Fold" drapes on it.

I would appreciate suggestions as to how to mount these before I re-invent the wheel.
Thank you in advance.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-21-2004, 05:48 PM:
 
Here's my guess:

Take a piece of 1/2" plywood cut 12" wide and 18" long, paint it flat black and toggle bolt it to the drywall. (Screws go through the wall.) Then use toggles to go through the plywood and through the drywall to mount the speaker.

The idea is to make a sturdy surface for the bracket to mount to, so as not to dig into (or pull out of) the wall under the weight of the speaker.

In other words, spread the weight out over a larger area like the way a pair of snow shoes work.
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-21-2004, 05:51 PM:
 
The best way is to mount this to a stiffener board of ( 2 x 2 foot plywood or a length of 2 x 4 board to spread the load on the wall. If your Soundfold drape is not too old or not burlap you can loosen the fabric off the bottom pleat rail to install if doing plywood, or the 2 x 4 board can be fished behind an opening in the drape This bracket is a pain to use on Soundfold since the bracket could be too short to clear the pleats without crushing. Soundfold and Omnimount have post type brackets that are concealed by the speaker and minimizes drapery puncture.
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-21-2004, 06:17 PM:
 
You could also attach the bracket to the wall with TOGGLER brand anchors (www.toggler.com). We've used Toggler # 21014 (1/4"-20, 50BB).
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 04-21-2004, 06:58 PM:
 
Ken, I've not been able to find the exact one you refer to?
Can you point me in the right direction?
The new snaptoggle looks interesting.
Snapptoggle

Also, I just had a local contractor suggest using E-Z Anchors that are rated for 50lbs. Anyone had experience in using these?
Thoughts?
EzAnchors

I was trying to use something that wouldn't be too bad at increasing chances of sound transmission thru the wall.

Thanks!
Appreciate the ideas, keep'em coming.
 

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Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 04-21-2004, 07:10 PM:
 
Or use a product like "No More Nails", combined with toggle screws
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-22-2004, 12:27 AM:
 
Brad:

Try this link: www.toggler.com/toggle.html and look at the SnapToggle model "BB". They are ideal for mounting speaker brackets.

Platt Electric stocks Toggler brand products here in western Washington state.
 

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Posted by Dan Harris (Member # 1759) on 04-22-2004, 05:35 AM:
 
We have the same brackets and surrounds installed. We had the advantage of installing them when we had our screens refurbished, so all the old drapes were removed so to see the wall.

Sound Associates UK did the install, and cut plywood boards slightly larger than the surface area of the back of the speaker and bolted these directly to the wall. Did the same thing for lighting rigs and exit lights that had to be wall mounted. As Randy said you can then toggle-bolt the bracket through the plywood and the wall.

www.soundcheck-uk.com were then able to fit their accoustic boarding and fabric covering over the top, having a slightly thinner area over any plywood. The speakers are about 1cm away from the accoustic boarding and theres no vibration.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-22-2004, 09:25 AM:
 
Toggle bolts are not typiclly recomended in this application as there is vibration present and eventually the vibration will cause the toggle to fatiue the drywall
Up here the building code excludes there use where ever there is vibration present
I always insist on a plate of 3/4" plywood be mounted bridging two studs and the speaker attached to it
 

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Posted by Andrew Lee (Member # 1330) on 04-22-2004, 09:45 AM:
 
A thin layer of dense foam rubber in between the mount and the plywood does help reduce vibration. Just cut out a piece to the exact dimension as the mount as you would a gasket.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-22-2004, 05:43 PM:
 
Holy Cow! I'm agreeing with Gordon on this one. I will add that I would use some sort of rustproof self drilling screws to secure the plywood to the studs. As far as the foam is concerned its probably ok, but if the walls are properly built may not be necessary. Geez, The new surroundds only weigh 20 lbs so you are not hanging the Queen Mary up there! The plywood is more than adaquate.... the mounts and wiring should all be done before the drapes go up.

Never but never mount anything heavy to drywall with any sort of toggle type of hardware, especially over a seating area. All it takes is a little bit of moisture in the drywall from a roof leak and the speakers may come a tumblin down. SOme of our customers have a steel stud run between two studs before the drywall goes up just for securing the speaker bracket to. Of course this is all planned out well in advance with the wall contractor by the sound system engineer!!

Mark
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 04-23-2004, 12:06 PM:
 
Well after doing some "testing" on my garage wall with a variety of anchors and toggles, I'll be going the 3/4" plywood route.
Screwed to the studs & construction adhesive used for good measure. That was my original plan, but was trying to make it as painless as possible. But in this case, the correct way and the easy way don't mix.

The Togglers that was suggested, are not readily available here. The Engineer I spoke to at Toggler, didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling when I explained how I was going to use his product.

Didn't take much to scare the beans out of me when I seen how easy the bracket could be pulled from the wall in my tests.

The 8330 speakers I'm hanging weight 31lbs according to JBL. Still not the queen mary, but would leave a nasty very permenant dent in someones head.

If anyone has a suggestion as to what specific screws to use to fasten the plywood to the metal studs, I'm all ears. Metal studs are 16" on center.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. Much appreciated.
This place rocks.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-23-2004, 06:23 PM:
 
31 lbs, falling from 10', could easily kill someone if it hit them in the head.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-24-2004, 10:29 AM:
 
"31 lbs, falling from 10', could easily kill someone if it hit them in the head."

When ever I use to hang surrounds I would actually hang from the bracket to confirm its strength before putting the speaker in place. I figured that if my 200 lb load didn't flex the mount then it was safe...

I generally used galvanized self drilling screws to anchor the plywood to the metal studs. Tapcons would also work and I believe are rustproof as well.... but quite a bit more expensive.

Years ago someone was either seriously injured or killed(can't remember which) by a falling Klipsch surround that had been wwater soaked via a roof leak amd later came apart and went down.

Mark
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-24-2004, 12:17 PM:
 
When we doing scores of screens I had my project supervisor check surround mountings + stage speaker and screen frame attachments due to liability issues...we had plenty of insurance but safety first. One job 40 brackets had to be replaced due to faulty welding by the manufacturer; they look O.K. but failed under test. In the late 1980's a client and I where standing in front of an auditorium under construction when the screen frame collapsed forward and landed around us...the contractor had used toggles through a sheet of drywall instead of lagging into the block wall.....luckily the sheet was not on the frame.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 05-06-2004, 01:53 PM:
 
Thanks for everyones feedback. We completed this last week.
Used 3/4" plywood, fastened with 8 sheet metal screws into the steel studs, with liquid nails on the back of the plywood as good measure. Worked out well. I wasn't brave enough to do Marks deadweight hang test from them. But, it ended up a very solid install.
I have a picture if anyones interested.
By the way, when the hell did plywood become gold plated. I about crapped at the price. $40.00 per 4x8 sheet! BC grade. Yikes!
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-06-2004, 03:33 PM:
 

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By the way, when the hell did plywood become gold plated. I about crapped at the price. $40.00 per 4x8 sheet! BC grade. Yikes!

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Random Lengths, an Oregon-based trade publication that serves the lumber industry, reported that the Defense Supply Center, the government's purchaser, shipped nearly 800,000 sheets of plywood in August for delivery to Iraq, along with 320 truckloads of 2 by 4, 2 by 6 and 4 by 4 foot boards to support Middle East operations.

According to Dan Usedom, manager of Roselle Building Materials in Roselle, IL, "Plywood costs have more than doubled in the past three to six months. Lumberyards can't keep these materials in stock for more than a day or two."

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Other factors behind the price surge include a strong Euro and heavy demand for building materials in Iraq and China - both undergoing a construction boom - short supply of logs from flood-hit Indonesia have been factors behind the price surge, they pointed out.

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A perfect storm of economic and geopolitical factors has taken. OSB (Oriented Strand Board) and plywood prices to new heights, moving these building products to price levels that builders and architects never dreamed possible, even in their worse nightmares. And relief still is not in sight... the federal government's insatiable need for wood products as it rebuilds Iraq.

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 05-06-2004, 03:45 PM:
 
Oh yeah, we do have a war going on don't we.

On top of that, the quality of the plywood was crap.

First warped plywood I've ever purchased.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-06-2004, 03:50 PM:
 
It's hit my pocketbook in many ways too!
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 05-06-2004, 04:26 PM:
 
My late father during the Vietnam War was gone for months at a time supervising shipments ( mostly lumber )of construction materials to the country. The shipments where factored that 25% of the materials would be stolen before arriving to the final destination. Food and shelter where commodities he would handle, never munitions which was against his principles. My recent purchases of plywood and the poor grade has been very noticable....at least you are trying to give a good show for your community.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-06-2004, 09:56 PM:
 
Just for safety purposes, one would be silly not to "safety chain" the speakers just in case the mounting bracket lets loose. I have heard of some instances where the ball snapped off on some style mounts.

I think that company did, indeed, issue a safety flyer on their product which highly recommended the use of a safety chain or cable.

Edited for clarity

[ 05-06-2004, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]
 

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Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 05-06-2004, 10:57 PM:
 
We use 2 safety chains on ours, one fairly tight and one loose in case the tight one fails. Screw a bracket into the cabinet and chain it to a hook screwed into the plywood.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-07-2004, 12:44 PM:
 
There is a shortage of plywood in the US well there is lots here but it is subject to a import tarif into the US

[ 05-07-2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Gordon McLeod ]
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-07-2004, 07:24 PM:
 
Good point about the safety chains, Paul. When we did our renovation/addition, they were required by the building inspectors.
 

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